There is this thing in American culture.Every time an underdog is supported. Americans supported Rocky when he fought against Apollo Creed in that movie Rocky.Spiderman another underdog became a mass hysteria when people found out that he was bullied in the school.Americans always always go for the underdogs..they create the underdog and they destroy that underdog....It is like a norm or taboo for  American culture..
We have this underdog here.Mr Barrack Obama.A charismatic leader ,an hypnotizing orator.First African American presidential candidate.He has American public behind him...He used the word "change" , and that word acted like a vaccination to American Public.People have this hope ,that this war and current recession and mortgage crisis would end if Obama goes to Washington as The Commander in cheif
the world is watching ..The world is waiting for the change..
But i believe that he is one Socialist person. He is trying to introduce communism in this capitalist country.
What does Obama stands for? a stronger central government like the Kremlin in Muscow..To force the rich people to pay more taxes so that the gap of rich and poor diminishes.If this idea is not derived from the Karl Marx's book "Das Capital"..then what is this? This is one form of communism.
America is one capitalist country.This is country is what it is today because of the capitalism.And capitalism is the "coolest" thing in the world.The consumer satisfaction runs the market today.And Mr.Obama tries to come to the White house and turn the farms in rural area into "Sovkhoz" and "Kohlkoz"..
If the word democracy has to survive in the world,then Obama has to lose the election.I am not saying that Mccain is better candidate,but he is not a person who talks like V.I lenin..
If Obama wins the election then this is the beginning of the END...
abhored..

last buddha ..how can i tell u that i am paraphrasing my own intuitions ,sir!

Guys, we should understand now world economy has entered into a new phases already. The externalities faced by todays’s economy are completely different that than what it used to be back 30 years /40 years ago. Global warming, terrorism, energy crisis, these all have created enormous challenges. So in order to combat these issues, world economy needs “think out of box” tactics which might appear/ what you consider “socialism/communism”. So I do  think Obama’s plan is in that respect I think will create some social balance.

 

 Also we need to understand there is strong connection between “socialism” and “capitalism”. If you have read “Das Capital”, Marx also has accepted that “capitalism is the ultimate”.  Whereas “capitalism” also needs to do social justice if you only follow “market based economy” and “encourage consumer society” only, you will face same situation what US is facing today and “capitalism” will go down. Inflation, price hikes, increase of mortgage rates, in crease of foreclosure rate are the problems faced by the one of the world strongest economy, “capitalist”. Under these circumstances state should use its power to regulate the economy.  â€œCapitalism’ is not only about capital accumulation, you just can not ignore social dimension of it, which often ignored and misunderstood.

 

If you think democracy only survive only in capitalism, you are true to some extent, but when your living becomes difficult, your “bread and butter” becomes major issue you would not think of other aspects of democracy,/ as defined by western world. Again, democracy is not all about freedom of speech or freedom to do anything; it is equally about right of living and right of social justice. Just for example, France is a democratic country, and also developed but system adopted there is no different than what Obama is prescribing. In fact many European countries practice such system and you can see the social balance and harmony in Europe in compare to rest of the world and yet they are still the strongest economy. Formation of European Union and making Euro as their common currency is just another example of how Europe wants to maintain its sustainable economy.

 

My point is, you just can not take one piece out of another at the present context. “Capitalism, social justice and democracy” has to run in tandem if we are to achieve sustainable economy

kanchu ,i would have to disagree  with you.Economy is like a cycle.Today the Western world has already passed the the industrialization phase.The manufacturing sector jobs are moving to the countries in south and south east Asia..Now we are facing this inflation, but hey dude..this is the reality..nothing is stagnant in this earth.Well inflation is high.i agree..nepal's inflation is around 22 percent..india's inflation is around 12 percent..Russia's inflation is around 12 percent anually..and US inflation is only around 3 percent.
Think about this..We know that there will be clamor in the near future because of the crisis in the oil.
But i believe that manufacturing jobs will come back to US and NAFTA is going to perish.
And then we will see the Ultimate Salvation of the Capitalism.
Karl Marx's inspired this monster .josef Stalin (Uncle Joe)..He was a monster..
It was the year 1940.A movie named "the grapes of wrath " was released in America.It was the movie that potrayed oklohoma dust bowl and the great depression .That movie was little bit inclined towards socialism.
Uncle Joe banned that movie in USSR.The reason, the poor american plightful farmer,henry fonda, had a car.
Look at this socialist mentality.

abhored--I am not here to discuss whether Obama Should become a President or not.I am not very much into US politics and does not make any difference for me..But your analogy Obama's tax policy as Communist theory,then you are wrong.Google up and do more study and differentiate Capitalism,Socialism and Communism.

In my understanding,Democrats is for Socialism so as Obama and Republican is for Capitalistic Socicety..If you see the vote banks of these two parties then you will better understand who they represent for..

Please feel free to disagree..

 

Database i would disagree with you.
But i wud like to say that i do know the differences between Capitalism .Socialism and Communism..
And i would just like to say that..communism is an absolute Socialism..if u did not know that,sir

Abhorred, you said you do not agree with me but all your arguments are just along the line what I am trying to say. Like you said economy is cycle but if you plan ahead you can turn that cycle on your favor.

 

 As far as inflation is concerned, declining US economy even a bit has larger impact on the monitory policy of rest of the world, that in turn impact the impact US economy.

 

Like you said, manufacturing jobs will come back but when? And how?? Big employers like GM motor are fighting for survivals forget about the making profit??? Toyota and Honda is taking over. Secondly, you need perpetual  energy source to continue your industry if US need to get back, they also need to rethink about energy policy. So getting back manufacturing jobs in its original shape is not that easy, you need to rethink your position. Industrialization phase is over already as you said. then what next? US top brass economist theortician " walt rustow" is also silence. Read his theory..tough days are ahead for US.

 

My understanding is India and China will continue to give hard time to US, India is hand taking most of service oriented jobs and  china is manufacturing. It is high time for US to realign its policy. Again capitalism is not absolute. Read amartya sen’s any publications. Read the world is flat by Tom Friedman.

 

Kanchu,
Manufacturing jobs will be back to US.I can tell u that.
Another revolution in the automotive industry is about to happen.
And when that revolution comes to america ,then we would see the big boom..that boom would be bigger than the dot com boom.
U would ask me how ,kasari huncha tyesto.?
i would say..americans will start using either solar energy or any form of alternative energy in a massive amount..we need cars ..vehicles..and jobs will be back at america..
and we would achieve this ultimate Capitalistic Salvation..hoina ra?

But i believe that he is one Socialist person. He is trying to introduce communism in this capitalist country.
If the word democracy has to survive in the world,then Obama has to lose the election.

HAHAHAHAHA.....damn, where do i begin?

abhored,
just his belief in more tax cut for the rich, makes Obama a COMMUNIST? then by the same token, every damn liberal is a communist! i don't deny some of his economic beliefs are along the lines of socialism but that is to cater the larger mass and for their greater goods.

do you even know the differences between socialism and communism?

if you go by the marx's definition, socialism is, IN FACT, akin to capitalism except for in socialism everyone has their say and hence everyone benefits from industrialization. And along the same line,  if you give it a closer look, conservatives are communists because only few (the elected officials) have their say in the economy. The US conservatives are similar to the communists before the second world war IMO.

understand that socialism is an economic system and  communism is a political system. the former USSR abandoned socialism and altered the meaning of communism (initially and originally envisioned by marx) when lenin took over. It became marxist-leninist and which later transformed into hardcore communism (namesake only) of Stalin called Stalinism.

Communists didn't want to hear anything against Stalin and hence freedom of speech was suppressed. If you look at modern US, conservatives can be put in the same coterie as Communists. They don't want to hear anything against their conservative leaders (take Bush's ardent supporters for example).

So my friend, don't just believe on hearsays. Try to understand the stuffs on your own. It will not only help you understand the real crux of the things but will also stop you from being an irrational conspiracy theorist

loote kukur,
Thanks for the slander first of all..
i am not one irrational conspiracy theorist..i believe in absolute capitalism..i believe in the gap between rich and the poor..i believe in dreams..
And i am rational enough to understand the meaning of the word Socialism...and i am rational enough to understand Socialist message that is concealed in obama's hypnotic speech..

hahaha...abhored bro, no hard feelings hai. i don't see any parts of my remarks meant to slander you or your cause. i just think that the premises on which you built your logic and put the "communist" tag on obama is weak and misguiding. as an obama supporter, i am offended by this thread.

i ask you -- which particular remark or act of obama makes you think that he is a communist (again communist as in "communist" --that the rest of the world know of)? now don't tell me that you saw the communist flag with the picture of che guevara on the wall of one of his party offices. LOL

It's kind of normal now that some people think liberals who are left to the center as 'communists'.
Ok, I will say  now conservatives who are right to the center are 'fascists'.

This reason will not cure my headache but apparently will give headache to the McCain supporters too.

well
Lootekukur bro,
His tax policy is total total socialist.How can u increase tax for the corporate companies?Its like if those corporation have to pay more taxes..what would happen to the people working here? the normal people..
They will move out of the country if they have to more taxes..This talk he talks about "equality" is something like socialism.Capitalism is for dreamers and hard workers..
Socialism is for Slaves.Romanoffs..or the serfs..
I am a dreamer and hard worker......

i hate Karl marx and Benitto mussolini...
Bhakunde bhut..

If Obama were a communist he would most likely be in jail right now instead of being on the ballot. In the US, becoming a communist is like being a witch in the Nepali society where the suspect is either pelted with stones to death or lynched on a pole.

America has been a hybrid of a Capitalistic and Socialistic society probably since its infancy. The social security program, state and fed funding public schools and universities, higher income bracket individuals being taxed higher etc all are elements of a socialist society. But above all, private ownership of most of the forms of  production and services is what makes its transgress from Marxist socialism. The wealthy individuals in the mean time have the freedom to minimize their tax within the framework of the IRS.

Communist on the other hand is a flawed ideology of creating a Utopian society via state-ownership of means of production and distribution of goods and services. At the end of the eight-hour work-day, you own nothing and you have spy monitoring your every move. In communism there is no incentive to innovate and employ TQM.

Abhored!
How will Absolute Capitalism benefit the American society and economy? Do you mean Absolute Free Market economy to be the main guiding principle for the economy when you refer to Absolute Capitalism?

i mean absolute capitalism mr hyde..absolute capitalism..where there is absolutely free market..where there wont be any government intervention...where everything is privatized..where consumers rule the market..
Absolute capitalism is something that is "absolute freedom" of a human being in every aspects...
absolute capitalism is an absolute victory for the whole human race...
dont u agree myhyde??

abhorred,
you are keeping 'fairness' (and hence democracy) under jeopardy if you keep dreaming on absolute capitalism like that. no country have had absolute capitalism  (in your term) consistently so to speak and still many of them have prospering democracy.

and raising capital gains tax is meant for fairness (and NOT to discourage capital investment). now if i amass billions a year as a hedge fund manager, i won't be whining for having to pay more to the state in capital gains. it's how you look at it (fairness). In bill's era, it was 28%, now it's hardly 15. Obama has pledged he won't increase it more than 28 (at the end of Bill's era). For a record, Bill's era saw thriving economic prosperity (budget surplus and all) in the US that didn't happen before and hasn't happened afterwards.

Again, these are all economic issues...there is nothing "communism" about it.

loote kukur..i want to know ur perception about communism..can u please define /abstractly describe the word "communism"??

ask your daddy george w. bush and his ardent warmonger supporters who don't want to hear a word against the US's unruly policy on iraq and the middle east.

It is an ideal way to think just like the Father Adam Smith would have dreamed of which is to allow the market forces to control the economy through law of supply and demand.

But in practicality, it was the lack of government intervention which provided too much leeway to businesses to control so much aspect of the economy that it resulted in the Great Depression of 1933.

Regulation of the economy by creating a government agency called SEC(Stock and Exchange Commission) was one of the remedies employed to fix the Depression.

Lootekukur..
Bush is a war monger...i agree..but troops must stay in iraq aba..no need of withdrawal..The situation now in iraq is chaotic but after american troops leave iraq.what is going to happen? more menace.never ending civil war..the kurds, the sunnis..today the people are dying in 100s everyday..but if american troops leave iraq rite now 10000 people will die everyday..and i want 100 people to die everyday .so that rest of those 9900 innocent civilians can live and survive.
i hate wars ..but i am being practical here ..loote kurur..
Bush is a retard but McCAin is not...


Mr Hyde..SEC was created during the era of great depression.probably around 1934.
Well i am just giving my personal opinon hai..I believe that SEC was created to prevent the citizens from going red.thats what i think...and if u think deeply about the creation of SEC u would see how it prevented america from going RED..