Gwajyo:"But I despise 'animal sacrifice'. It's so stupid culture."
Tired: Again, is it stupid because it is part of our culture and not of the "enlightenend" cultures? Besides, it may be stupid, but it does me good. I get to eat meat.
Gwajyo: You can?t justify stuffs by saying that it?s beneficial to you. Whatever gov. in Nepal is doi? like corruption, and other people cheating to other people, criminals doing crimes are OBVIOUSlY doing benefits to themselves. But why do we raise our voice against them and want to see them behind bars? I can steal n? cheat that is DEFINITELY beneficial to me (if I see only from my side). You?ve to come out of your narrow hole to get the COMPLETE PICTURE. Then you?ll realize how ABSURD it is. Comparing this with original ?animal sacrifice? issue, if you can get out of it being ATTACHED TO YOUR CULTURE and then perhaps you?ll be able to see the stupidity of it. Muslims can?t see that BURQAS ARE BAD because they?re so much attached and conditioned with their cultures that they can?t see the simple reality. I?d like to make clear that I?m not trying to make our culture something like ENGLIGHTENED or neither I?m perfectionist. But I love animals and I can?t see their pain and besides I also wanna be proud of my culture and would like to make some sense of it. I wanna be PROUD when I introduce my culture to the world. BUT I FEEL ASHAMED saying ANIMAL SACRIFICE IS WHAT HAPPENS IN OUR BIGGEST FESTIVAL.
G:"HARMING OTHER CREATURES WHETHER IT BE MAN OR ANIMALS OR EVEN PLANTS won't make u a better person."
T:- Ok, but it does not necessarily make me a bad person it I harm animals or plants. I think it is impossible for me to survive, to live without harming even humans, let alone animals or plants. PLANTS??? are you kidding me?
G: I?m not telling you NOT to eat vegetables or meat. I?m simply telling that don?t overdo it. If you do it beyond the limit, it?s gonna come back to you. So in a way I?m being selfish to myself coz? I?m concerned that by OVER-HARMING other creatures in a way I?m also harming myself. It?s because I know that everything works in a cycle in this world. Whatever I do, whether it be good or bad is gonna come back to me. So if we do continue to ?animal sacrifice?, it?s coming back as being some kind of problems in our society and we?re just being BLIND to the issues. Again, it?s because we?re so much attached to our cultures, our nations; we can?t see this simple TRUTH. OFCOURSE, PLANTS DO HAVE LIFE. BUT we still have to eat plants or animals. That is the way how it works. But why can?t I make it simple? Why do I?ve to do all kinds of DRAMAS like ?animal sacrifice?? Why am I fooling myself saying I?m being religious or trying to make god happier by doing something cruel as ?ANIMAL SACRIFICE??
G:"You're just being another person to add shit into the world."
T:- Dude, I add shit to the world as long as I am breathe and digest (oh yes, both figuratively and literally). Animal sacrifice has got nothing to do with it. hehe.
G: Animal sacrifice has definitely got to do something with it. I know I?ve to live n? so does my excretory system. But it doesn?t justify to throw my shit all over the place. I do need to take care of my shit as well. It?s my responsibility; that?s why we do it only inside TOILETS. We do need to live so we eat plants and animals. But like the shit, why do I need to go to some SACRED PLACE LIKE TEMPLES to do ?animal sacrifice?. GOD is OBVIOUSLY NOT HAPPY with your behavior. S/he must be crying as his/her love is equal to all the creatures whether it be man, animals or plants.
G:"We're promoting violence n' to let our children be more cruel by showing them our cultures of 'ANIMAL SACRIFICE'."
T:- We are showing our kids that life is not always goody-goody, cushy-cushy. They have to see where the meat they enjoy eating comes from. That's part of education. In fact, it would be a disservice to not let the kids know that we have to kill the animals first, before we can get meat from them. They have to see beyond grocery store shelves, too. Then maybe they can make an informed decision to not eat meat. Violence (against animals and plants) is a necessary part of (human) life.
G: I?d like my kid to know the truth as equally as you do. But I also know that there?re many other realities like ?Competition?, ?violence going around?, ?we?ve to lie or cheat sometimes to survive?. Why don?t I try to show him all the bad realities? It?s because I want my kid to understand that is not the best way of dealing with it. I won?t try to hide anything from the kid. But I just want to show him better example. During my childhood and still, I see whenever people see some animals (even small ants or animals), people tend to go to kill it. What is wrong with the world? Don?t they?ve got the right to live? ARE WE THE ONLY CREATURE WHO CAN LIVE IN THIS WORLD? But I also understand I?ve to kill him only if my life is in danger. If I see snake, I don?t necessarily chase and kill it. But If there?s some animals like tiger and it?s coming ?seeing me as prey?. Then, I definitely have to kill it; otherwise I?ll get killed. We?re adding more problems into the world because of not being able to understand this simple fact. I?ll give u a case study of Vietnam. Many people in Vietnam used to die because of snake bites in their fields. So they run a big campaign n? almost made snakes extinct from their paddy fields. But then all their rice crops declined coz? they?ve now even bigger problems as their paddies are being destroyed by rats. So I watched in National Geographic that the Vietnamese who once were chasing after snakes are introducing snakes to their fields and trying to find better solution to avoid snake-bites rather wiping them out. I believe that the pathetic scenes during dashain do have some consequences to us. We just need to open our eyes to be able to see it.
G:"They'll learn it's nothing wrong in killing animals"
T:- There may be something wrong in killing animals but sometimes the benefit exceeds the costs. These animals have been reared to be killed and be part of human consumption. If eating them is fine, then well...you can't eat meat without killing animals. I think.
G: I?ve answered partly above. My kid is not going to be dumb ass ?not to understand? that the meat he?s eating is coming from trees. He has to understand this harsh reality. But if I?m to teach him, I?ve to try to give him the complete picture and not showing it partially. ?Look kid, we?ve to survive n? so we?ve to eat meat for nutrition; besides that I?m making god also happier by doing this; it has many benefits; u get lots of entertainment; look at that pathetic animal how sad he?s; even tears are coming; you?ve to HARM OTHERS to SURVIVE in this world?. So if you?re the person who thinks that we can?t survive without harming others, then I don?t have to say anything.
G:"If you talk with the real sociologist or psychologist and ask them to link 'BEHAVIORS IN ANIMAL SACRIFICE CULTURE', you'll come to know further worse complications of it."
T:- Again, another incursion of the enlightenend culture babble. There are further complications of having grown up thinking meat grows in grocery store shelves and realizing later that animals have to be killed to fill the shelves, too. There is guilt involved in that too, if you feel guilty killing animals all the time.
G: If you?re so concerned about showing your kids about him to understand about stuffs. Why don?t u goto factories to show him how his shoes or clothes are manufactured; why don?t you go to firecracker factories to show him that his favorite firecrackers are made by the Indian kids as young as him and sometimes they even die during accidents (you can check the truth about it dude, I?ve watched documentary about it in Indian TV) so that he can get his cracker it time; why don?t you let him know in Nepali fields, even still, mixed shits are added as fertilizers to grow his favorite vegetable? Why don?t? you do all that? And why do you are concerned only about showing his ?animal sacrifice?? I guess it?s because you do it not to educate your kid but to entertain yourself ?BEING PROUD OF YOUR STUPID CULTURE?
G:"I DESPISE IT BECAUSE IT'S THE CULTURE WHERE HARMING OR HURTING OR KILLING OTHERS IS BELIEVED TO LEAD US TO HEAVEN. THIS HAS MUCH WORSENED CONSEQUENCES THAN WE CAN REALLY THINK OF. BUT I'm sad that we're so much conditioned with our stupid cultures that we can't see even the simple fact. I FEEL ASHAMED TO TELL PEOPLE THAT MY CULTURE HAS SO MANY STUPIDITIES."
T:- Denigration. Or reverse-denigration to be exact. If you feel ashamed to say your culture is stupid, you are conditioned as well.
G: I?m ashamed of my ?Animal sacrifice? culture but I?m happy to say our ?DASHMI TIKA?. It?s our duty to clean our culture. The responsibilities lies within us. I can?t do anything about ?Burqa culture?. But I can do something about my culture. I?m ashamed not because I?m conditioned but because I couldn?t make any sense from it. There?re some good stuffs in my culture too which I feel good about.
G:"It might be the same during SATI PRATHA. People were carrying it out in the name of cultures."
T:- Sati pratha was bad because it harmed humans. Yeah, and our culture is not pristine, just as it is not all bad.
G: I?ve already said that NOT ALL IN OUR CULTURES ARE BAD. So you do agree something is bad there. But I doubt it because if you really REALLY know it?s bad. If you knew it from your heart that it?s bad, then you?ll never do it. So you?re merely saying it. In reality, you don?t think anything in our culture is bad.
G:"Why do people in the world are talking about 'ANIMAL RIGHTS'? Why people in the world try to boycott the cosmetics or other products which has used animals for their trials."
T:- I have to say, a lot of them animal rightists are just wacko. Besides, I can live without cosmetics, but I can't live without meat. So, there are gradations in "cruel" treatment of animals.
G: I am not telling you not to eat meat or use cosmetics. But you can still use cosmetics or eat without cruel treatment of animals. Let me narrate one more story to you. I learned about a year ago ?How khasis are made in Nepal?. My friend (Agriculture guy) told me that he had seen in Nepali villages, by his own eyes, goat?s testicles are crushed by stones to make it khasi. He said he also felt sad while that pathetic goat was just screaming with pain. I was just stunned to hear that. But I?m not going to let my kid see that khashis has to be made by CRUSHING HIS TESTICLES WITH STONE. Now, they?ve got some kind of machines in Vet clinic which takes care of this. He told me that it?s just like vaccines and doesn?t give much pain to goat and it costs as less as 10-20 rupees per time. Isn?t that better than crushing with stones? But can you believe how long they might have practiced it? I?ve more storied to tell dude. But it?s getting long.
"G: When will we be HUMANS IN THE REAL SENSE?"
T: - I don't think "inhumane" treatment of animals necessarily makes us any less human. Those animals are not humans afterall.
G: ?????? I will say ?You are dead wrong?. ANY HARSH OR CRUEL TREATMENT TO ANYTHING will drive us to make less human. Let me give you more stories some other time.
G: I just want to add that I am saying any kind of cruel treatment of animals by humans are fine with me. There are practices that do not produce any benefit to humans but only harms animals, maybe. We should take care of animals as much as we can, maybe. But I don't think killing animals for food constitutes moral guilt if I eat meat.
T: As far as animal-killing cultures go, well it differs from place to place. Some like it done in a slaughterhouse so that the gory details are hidden. Some like to do it in front of stone idols (possibly to appease the guilty conscience of the killer). Some like kosher killing - drain all the blood before cutting the animal into pieces. Doesn't make a difference to the animal how it is killed, if it is killed right?
G: What are you saying? Can?t you see the simple difference? Are dogs animals or not? Do you see how much affection the pets get in America? I said just to point out that they do feel pain as we do. If you?ve to die, which way you?d prefer to die among all other method you?ve described? Do you know when ?human sacrifice? were banned in Nepal? Do you see any difference of ideas between ?human? or ?animal? sacrifice? They can?t do it for human so they do it with animal. As long as we don?t agree any kind of sacrifice is bad, we?ve not seen the TRUTH. One more story, I watched in STAR News about ?bali? given of a small kid. It?s obviously because they think it has more power with kid?s bali than animal bali.
