"The moral progress of a nation can be
judged by the way it treats its animals" - Gandhi

Dear Friends,
Only history will prove how true and visionary Gandhi was when he said those words when India was fighting against the British occupation.During the struggle that nation was also fighting its own social ills.In fact British played the role of catalyst in indian fight against "Sati" system which they thought was nonsense.Just an example.
As we all know the great festival of "Dashain" is nearing.It is the greatest festival because it represents the triumph of "good" over "evil".I have no idea what "good" and "evil" we are talking about here.And,I don't think I will ever be clear on that over my life time.
There are only good memories of Dashain for us as Nepalis.Once again we are ready to celebrate Dashain like any previous year.And,of course we are going to sacrifice thousands of animals and flood our holy temples with blood.Lord Durga will be happy that we are going to do so.There will be blood everywhere.Good humans who are good and strong by nature are going to kill evil animals who are weak by nature.We will cherish on such occasion.
Nonetheless,there is an exception cow is an exception.We recieve milk from cow(and thats why its holy) but not from goat or buffalo.Wait a minute.I have drank more milk from buffalo than cow.But aren't all the mo-mos sold in kathmandu comes from the same buffalo that we recieve milk as well.Just a thought.
Why does the greatest festival of Nepal have to be the great violent celebration too?We are strong and animals aren't.We have to sacrifice the weaker ones so that we human can grow stronger.Does that represent our deepest philosophy of how we should continue to exist?Millions of sacrifices in the past and did it make any difference?Or now we have become so deeply religious that we have started to target our own fellow beings instead of animals and instead of Dashain its all year around.And that's why we have ceasefire during the time of dashain.Is Durga happy?
iZen

I do agree tha there are many different cultures that practice many different rituals.I may disagree with some of them but I will never impose my point of view thinking I will change their mindset in the back of my head.That is no different than americans trying to plant freedom and democracy in the heads of middle easterners(impossible).Nevertheless,being the part of the society that still practices an ape-like rituals I would rather have my humane side heard.

Ahh!!!! lets not call it ape like rituals(ape have rituals ? I thought they did not even know how to communicate). Are you calling your OWN CULTURAL RITUAL APELIKE(suggesting we came from apes? ) ? Try and explain that to the intelligent design folks... ha ha
just kidding

We might have evolved physically and somewhat mentally/intellectually some of our rituals are still pre-human like.I donot endorse the whole "Genesis" theory that bible expalins so that would my ancestors apes.~ha-ha~

IZen Jee,

Glad to hear your views, I don't have words to praise you for your non-violence feelings. अहिंशा परमो धर्म जतो धर्म ततो जय।Non violence is the greatest Dharma and where there is Dharma there is victory.

I am sorry to say that we (Nepali people) are destroying Dharma by the name of protecting Dharma. Regrettably, most of us don't know what is real Dharma, and consider wrong rituals like Dashain as Dharma. In this dark age of wrong practice, you seem to be a ray of wisdom. Keep it up. I have a motto, that I have learned from Buddha, and never forget to say to anyone. Here is it.

Your life should speak what you mean


Pade Queen Jee,
नमस्ते!
First of all I must appreciate the way you think about the ills of the culture and the society. I am glad that we have something vivid and vital common between us.

Regarding the question you have asked, I don't have a straight forward answer. In fact I have been asking that question to myself, and I have not been able to get the exact answer of it.

I don't want to wipe out the culture and tradition by opposing them just because they are counter productive. Some people, mainly communist practitioners, had already done such work. History is our witness, that didn't yield any good result. It is just to go form wrong practice to no practice.

I want consturctive change of the culture. I want people to be wise and use their intellect before doing anything. I want people to abandon sick culture out of wisdom and get something substantial as an alternative. So, I don't know how long will it take to eradicate such wrong tradition through right way, however, I know it will be wiped out one day for sure.

My following posting will shade more light on this. (Believe me I haven't copied and pasted this one :))

Pisces Jee,
Namasker!

Your presence in Sajha has always been a pleasure to me. I appreciate your questions. Please give me some time, I will try to answer them. At this time, if you trust me, take my words that the Mahabharat was written much after the Buddha. This matter have been discussed in Sajha to great length some years ago, twice. It should be somewhere in Archive.

I haven't forgotten your question regarding the Gita, which you have asked quite a time ago. Some day I will certainly post for your.

Vishowntar

Once upon a time there was a beautiful river with rich banks and crystal-clean optimally mineralized water. Some travelers came and settled there. Since the river gave them life and prosperity, they began to express their gratitude by revering her. Since the river water was their life energy, they were deeply obliged and used to consider it as a heavenly liquid.

Time passed, the population grew and things went unmanageable. The river got so polluted that it looked like sewage. However, people were still considering the river as revered. They were taking bath on and drinking her as their ancestors, following the tradition. Since the water was polluted, they were developing different kind of diseases, and were suffering.

Mean time, a cleaver person came and realized that the cause of suffering of the people is the water from the river. People found him logical and made sense to them. They got convinced for not drinking the water and started to drink wine as an alternative drink. People became healthier since then, however, got addicted to alcohol. They came out of the physical disease but caught by the psychological one.

Then a wise person came and studied the situation thoroughly. He figured out the problem was not the water but the polluted water. He educated people how their ancestors lived a healthy and happy life due to the fresh/clean water and how they got sick due to the polluted water. He made them to feel that their filthy way of living was the real cause of the problem. They realized the same fresh water was flowing in the river, and if they took the pollution out, they could get it. Since then they became well managed and cleanliness loving people. Fresh water started to flow in the river again giving fresh life energy to the people, making them healthy and happy.

Contd.......

Moral of the lesion:
Identifying problem is not enough. You need right solution of the problem. Neither I want people to drink polluted water and get physically sick nor do I want them to make wine as the alternative of polluted water and get mentally sick. I want them to see the fresh water missing inside the polluted river; clean the river; enjoy the fresh water; and live healthy and harmonious life.

I want people to think, to investigate, to explore, and to identity the substantial things which are hided inside the culture and tradition, instead of just discarding them. I want such a scientific society which will not manually follow the culture, rather ask a question WHY?, before doing anything.

River has already been polluted which can be guessed from the illness of the society. Don't drink the river water it is polluted, it might have been fresh when your ancestors drunk. Clean the river, you will end up getting the fresh water, which your ancestors had praised.

It's easy to abandon culture destructively. I don't want that. I want to clean up the polluted cultures and make the fresh Dharma to flow, quenching the thrust of people, giving a harmonious life to the people in this tiresome world. I want people to identify the fresh Dharma, which is flowing inside the polluted culture, and embrace it.

I know very well, it will not happen just by wishing. It will not happen just by writing few articles and advertising by media. It will not happen giving strong logics and writing books. There is one and only one way for the constructive change, which is personal demonstration. The life should be a message; such message transmits slowly but permanently. This is how Buddha, Jesus, Mohammed transmitted their message. Regrettably, their message got polluted as the time passed.

Vishowntar

I totally agree with Izen. N' what's wrong with nepalis? Whom are you blaming West, other cultures, muslims, even Bush. Now don't tell we're paid for changing nepalis to change their culture so that we can hijack the whole country called Nepal. Look at Nepali attitude. THis is very typical. Don't u wanna look at urself before blaming others. Dudes, we're talking about our own nepali cultures n' we nepalis SHOULD BE ASHAMED FOR KILLING ANIMALS IN THE NAME OF GOD. HOW INSANE n' SENSELESS n' STUPID WE ARE. We can't justify our wrong doing by saying other people're also doi' wrong. It doesn't matter what othes r doing. WE've TO STOP ANIMAL SLAUGHTERS DURING DASHAIN.

Yes durga is happy.
celebrate it...

दुर्गे माताकी, जय!!!

not everyone gets to eat whatever they want....
if in dashain ppl spend the money to eat meat..so let them. if they want to say that's it for god ..so what. People need a reason to spend money and enjoy something once in a while. I am not saying that i am for killing animals but in every country people eat meat....the way they kill animals is just as brutal and ugly as anywhere. Maybe they don't associate it with religion....but who cares...not every place is purely driven by religion..............

gotta go back to work..

Vishowntar जी,
तपाईले दिन खोज्नु भएको सन्देश यहां हराएको छैन। सामाजिक विकृतिका कुरा बडो समय सान्दर्भिक छन्। तपाईका विचार र तर्कहरुले जैले पनि प्रगाति पथको आश जगाउछन्। त्यसैले आफ्नो लेखाईलाई निरन्तरता दिनु होला। सामाजिक परिवर्तन समाजलाई शिक्षित बनाएर मात्र सम्भव छ। तपाईका धार्मिक, राजनैतिक र समसामयिक सबै खाले लेखहरुले सत्यको पक्ष लिएको हुन्छ। र सत्यलाई केलाएर मात्र सही निकास निस्कन्छ। तर सत्यको सधै जीत हुन्छ। त्यसैले हाम्रो समाजबाट सामाजिक विकृतिहरु हटेर जानेछन्। ढीलो चांडोको कुरा मात्र हो। आफ्नो क्षेत्रबाट ईटा थप्ने काममा भने हामीले चुक्नु हुन्न। वस, त्यति हो।

http://www.stopsacrifice.org/
Animal Sacrifices for Religious reasons is a common part of Nepalese life. Most Nepalese sacrifice for appeasing the gods for the well-being of one's family. While in the western world this would be termed sheer barbarism, in Nepal the practice continues unabated under the garb of protecting one's culture. Nothing can be far from the truth since human sacrifices have stopped. IF HUMANS CANNOT APPEASE THE GOD'S THEN HOW CAN THE INNOCENT ANIMALS?

DASAIN OR DUSHHERA,THE MAJOR HINDU FESTIVAL WHICH IS CELEBRATED BY HINDUS OF NEPAL BY SACRIFICING GOATS, COCKS, DOVES AND BUFFALOES TO GODDESS KALI BEGAN FROM OCT 7th.THE GORY FESTIVAL LASTED FOR 15 DAYS.

KING OF NEPAL SACRIFICES 10 BLACK-HE GOATS (news title:Royal couple offers special prayers)

Thank you so much Vishontarji,
Your views are very impressive too.We are what we think that is certainly true.The concept of heirarchy of hindu milleniums(yugas) are the product of our mind.Golden/silver/kali they are reside in our mindset.It is our duty though to purify our thoughts and only we can we can proceed ahead.Our revolution is more psychological than political.Its an inner revolution of thoughts.
Your stories were certainly educative.No-violence is a state of mind.Violence has achieved nothing in the long run.
I wish to hear from you soon.

Gwayjo,
The problem is with the mindset that already exist.My purpose is not to brainwash folks by imposing my views.I simply spoke what I thoght.Welcome abroad.

ऊमेशजी,
प्रेरणाको लागी धन्यबाद! म अबस्य लेख्ने छु।आउदा केहि हप्ताहरु फुर्सतिला छन्।अबश्य लेख्ने छु। "सत्य मेव जयते"। "सत्य मेव जयते"।। "सत्य मेव जयते"।।। सत्यमेव जयते कुनै प्राचिन मन्त्र नभएर एक अखण्ड सत्य हो। मैले अहिले सम्म असत्यको जित भएको कहिल्यै देखेको छैन। सधै सत्यकै जित देखेको छु। अन्धाधुन्ध परापुर्व कालदेखी मानिदै आएका कुरिति र कुप्रथाहरुको वैज्ञानिक कारण खोज्ने समाजको विकाशतर्फ लाग्नुपर्छ हामी। कुनै कुरा गर्नु भन्दा पहिला सम्यक सोचविचार, सम्यक चिन्तनमनन, सम्यक मुल्याङकन गरेर मात्र पाइला चाल्ने समाजको निर्माणमा सहभागी हुनुपर्छ हामी।

मृत ढुङगालाई देबता मानी, जिबित प्राणिहरुको आहुति दिने कस्तो दीन समाजमा जन्मियो, हुर्कीयो! झिगाले छोएर दिशा गरेको खाना खाने तर मानिसले छोएको खाना नखाने कस्तो अबुझ भएर जन्मियो, हुर्कीयो!! आफैले आफैलाई ठुलो मान्ने र अरुलाई सानो मान्न वा भन्न नलजाउने कस्तो निर्लज्ज भएर जन्मियो, हुर्कीयो!!! सम्पन्नताको आनन्द बिपन्नहरुलाई सानदिदै लिइने समाजमा जन्मियो, हुर्कियो!!!! अन्धाहरुको समाजमा पट्टी बाधेर जन्मियो।

धेरै बसियो उमेश जी अध्यारोमा, अब उज्यालो खोज्ने बेला आएको छ। उज्यालो पाएकाले आत्मकेन्द्रित नभई, पछाडी फर्केर अध्यारोमा बसिरहेकाहरुलाई उज्यालो देखाउने बेला आएको छ। जसरी बाँचेपनि जहाँ बाचेपनि आयु सिध्याउने त हो नि। जीवनमा मा गर्नु पर्ने कुराहरु धेरै हुन्छन्, तर सार्थक कुरा रोज्न सक्नु बुद्दिमता हो। सार्थक त्यहि हो, जसले धेरैको कल्याण गर्छ। अतः, आत्मकेन्द्रित जिबनबाट बाहिर आउनु छ, परकेन्द्रित जिबन बिताउनुछ।

यस्ता भाषण दिने मान्छेहरुको कमी छैन समाजमा, तर जसले बास्तविक जिवन बिताउछ, उस्ले मात्र प्रभाव पार्न सक्छ। "यथावादी तथाकारी"-जे बोल्छ, त्यो गर्छ। त्यसतो ले मात्र समाजलाई सहि बाटोमा हिडाल्न सक्छ। मुख हैन व्यबहार बोल्नु पर्छ। लेखहरु लेखेर, भाषण दिएर केहि मान्छेहरुलाई मानसिक सन्तुष्टी दिन सकिन्छ, त्यो राम्रो हो। त्याहाँबाट सुरुबात हुन्छ। तर त्यसले आमुल परिबर्तन ल्याउन सक्दैन। आमुल परिबर्तनको लागि समाज शिक्षित हुन आबश्यक छ। को शिक्षित? त्यो शिक्षित जो आफ्नो बुद्दिको प्रयोग गर्छ। भलै क, ख न आओस उस्लाई, तर कुनै काम गर्नु भन्दा पहिला त्यसको राम्रो सँग अध्यायन, मुल्याङकन गरेर त्यसको सहि, बेसहि, फाइदा बेफाइदा बुझेर गर्न सक्ने होस्। क, ख जान्नेले पनि यदि बिवेकको प्रयोग गर्दैन, र अन्ध श्रद्दाले स्विकार गर्छ भने, ऊ समस्या हो, समाधान होइन।

Mata durga ........ rakchya gara mataaaaaa.......

दशैको शुभकामना

Pisces Ji,
That is a good question. Why Mongolians eat beef besides being Buddhist if Buddha discouraged to eat it?

There is no doubt that the Buddha discouraged to eat beef. I have read in different places in त्रिपिठक where Buddha was discouraging his lay disciples not to kill cows and Bulls.

In one सुत्र, he was saying something like this:

"Don't kill cow, she milks us, regard her as mother."
"Don't kill Bull, he plough and feed us, regard him as father."

This tells us that the people at the time of Buddha in Indian subcontinent used to kill cow for meat.

In one place, we can found him saying how the cow killing religious ceremonies (गौघातक यज्ञ) were started. He was saying,

"Ancient people used to regard cow as their mother. Some greedy corrupted Yogis, when tested cow's milk product, found so delicious and thought its meat should be more delicious. So, they went to the king and said him that if he (the King) sacrificed cow in यज्ञ, he will get a lot of merit. King had immense respect to Yogis, so he did it."

This fact tells us that there used to be cow killing religious ceremonies during Buddha era.

In different occasion, Buddha went to different people, who were performing multi-animal killing ceremony. He explained to them that killing doesn't bear any merit, real merit comes from non violence and purifying one's own mind. They got convinced and said:

"गोतम, These hundred cows are free now. May they graze green-green grasses! May they enjoy their life and have a natural death!?

This means there used to be cow killing religious ceremony for merit, which seems pretty much similar to modern day दशैं, but much worse.

I have given one more example from महासतिपठ्ठान सुत्त in my earlier posting, where he is giving example of a cow butcher while teaching धातुमनसिकार पर्व of कायानुपस्सना. He was saying:

"Like a skillful cow-butcher or his assistant, having killed a cow in a cross-road-square, divides different parts of its body, similarly, a mediator should be skillful to divide and dissect the reality pertaining to one."

This also supports the fact that people used to eat cow at the time of Buddha.

Contd...

Pisces Jee, that was just a background, here is the real answer of your question:

When Buddha started to teach Dhamma, it was not a religion. It was a pure science of mind; a pragmatic technique to eradicate the suffering of life. Of course, there were/are different types of sufferings in the world; however, all the sufferings are rooted to mind. Once you cut the roots, the whole body of suffering will die out.

We can compare his teaching with science. No matter who discovers the scientific laws the entire human race applies them. Most of the scientific discoverers are westerners; it doesn't mean that you have to get westernized to apply the science. Arabians, Asians, American, Europeans, African anyone can apply these discoveries and take advantage of it. For that you don't have to change your culture, tradition, living style, language etc.

This happened with Buddha's teaching too. It went to all over the Asia; people embraced it because it was result giving scientific technique to eradicated the misery of life. Those, who took the teaching from Indian subcontinent, most of them were monks. Monks doesn't have any culture except meditating day and night. Buddha's teaching is not a culture, it is a science; science of mental purification. People of different countries of Asia accepted it as a science not as a religion.

Religion goes with culture but science doesn't. This is the reason why different Buddhist countries have their own traditions and cultures. There is almost nothing common between Chinese Buddhist and Srilankan Buddhist. Buddha's teaching didn't interfere the existing cultures and traditions. Mongolians were cow eaters; they embraced Buddha's teaching keeping their cow eating tradition alive.

Buddha didn't interfere the existing culture himself. He taught his monks not to harm any living being. That's why Monks are not supposed to kill even plants. However, Buddha himself used to eat anything dead given to him, even meat.

Once Monk Devadatta proposed Buddha some proposals; one of them were the monks wouldn't eat meat. Buddha discarded his proposal because he didn't want to interfere the existing culture. Not to kill is the first of the five moral precepts of his teaching. However, he didn't stop people to kill

This is the beauty of his teaching.

अत्ताही अत्तनो नाथो को हि नाथो परो सिया?
You are the master of your own, who else can be your master.

अत्ताहि अत्तनो गति।
Since one is responsible for what he does, one is responsible for what he get.

तुमेहि कित्चँगा तप्पम्, आख्खातारो तथागत।

You are the one who has to follow the teaching; my job is just to let you know the teaching.

He wanted people to be self judgmental.

He asked people not to kill anything if they want their welfare, however, he didn't insist them to follow it. He left for the people to judge and act accordingly. That is why his teaching is beautiful. He wanted people to follow his teaching with wisdom not out of blind faith.

His teaching is alive in the world and it is spreading like fire in the dry jungle. We can here the purity of his immortal words from the mouth of a modern monk. Ledi Sayado, a 19th century enlighten monk of Burma, repeated his words for the Burmese people, who has cow eaing tradition.

Oh people, don't kill cow, she milks us, she is like our mother.
Oh people, don't kill Bull, he ploughs our fields and feed us, he is like our father.

Many herd Monk Ledi, some followed some didn't. Whoever followed got something good out of it.

Many people followed Buddha, during him, after him, even 2500 years after him. This revered monk is an example. Many people people didn't follow him during his lifetime, after him, even now. However, the teaching will persist............This is how the world is.

It is something like this: Doctors suggests not to smoke, it's up to us whether to listen to the Doctors or not.

Vishowntar