नेपालभासया  महाकवि सिद्धिदास महाजुं "जिमिगु भाय नेवारी मखु नेपालभास  ख:" धका आन्दोलन न्ह्याकादीगु ८० दं ति दये धुन्कल | तर आ नं "नेवारी" धाइपिं यक्व हे दु | खस् भास छ्यलीपिन्सं ला "नेवारी" या सक्कली नां "नेपालभास" ख: धका ए मथू थें च्वन | न्ह्याथाय नं "नेवारी" "नेवारी" च्वया हैरान ए यायू | तर आ फेसबुक पाखें छगू बाँलागु ज्या जू वन | आ "नेवारी" मखु "नेपालभास" छ्यले मा: धैगु चेतना वइ कि?

Almost 80 years ago, the great poet Siddhidas Mahaju said "Our language is not 'Newari', it is Nepalbhas." But the word "Newari" is still used by many people. Most of them do not know what is wrong with "Newari", particularly among the "Khas" language users. Now the popular social network site has taken down the word "Newari" from its profile database. Thousand of pages using the word "newari" are replaced by "Nepalbhasha" according to an article posted on nepalmandal dot com.

I would appreciate if Sajha could also correct the wrongly used word.

Details here: http://www.nepalmandal.com/content/12548.html

फेसबुकं 'नेवारी' खँग्वः लिकाल

न्ववाइगु भाय्‌या सूचीइ 'नेवारी' खँग्वः लिकयाः 'नेपालभाषा' तयेगु इनाप लिपा अन्ततः सोसल नेटवर्क साइट फेसबुकं 'नेवारी' खँग्वःयात पूर्ण रुपं चिइकूगु दु । थ्वया लिपा आः फेसबुक छ्यलीपिं द्वलंद्वः नेवाःतय् प्रोफाइलय् न्ववाइगु भाषाया रुपय् नेपालभाषा धकाः खनेदये धुंकूगु दु ।

न्हूगु परिवर्तन लिपा फेसबुकय् थःम्ह न्ववाइगु भाय्‌ धकाः प्रोफाइलय् भाय्‌या नां 'nepal ..' निसें च्वयेगु शुरु याःसा 'Nepal Bhasa' धकाः अटो कम्पलिट अप्सन बिइ । अथे हे 'newa' प्यंगः आखः टाइप यायेवं 'Newar / Nepal Bhasa' धकाः अप्सन बिइ । यदि 'newari' धकाः भाय्‌या नां च्वत धाःसा उगु भाय्‌या नां स्वतः नेपालभाषा धकाः हिलाबिइ, 'newari' धकाः भाय्‌या नां च्वके बिइमखु । उलि जक मखु थ्व स्वयां न्ह्यः नेवारी धकाः थःगु भाय्‌या नां च्वयातःपिनि दक्वसिया प्रोफाइलय् 'Newar / Nepalbhasa' धकाः स्वतः हिउगु दु ।

लुमंके बह जू, विश्वया दक्वं भाषाया नां व कोड ISO या ज्या याइगु लाइब्रेरि अफ कंग्रेसलिसे नेवाःतय्‌सं न्ववाइगु भाय्‌यात नेपालभाषा धकाः च्वयेत इनाप लिपा न्हापा नेवारी धकाः जुयाच्वंगु नांयात छुं दँ न्ह्यः नेवारी, नेपालभाषा धकाः भिंकूगु खः । नेपालभाषाया ISO 639-2 कोड new खः ।

Damn dash bro....who has time to read all that,  I like your posts and comments ..lol..but easy with all that writing ...just my two cents.

Thanks

Lekhda lekhdai dherai bhayecha, next time I will think about it

Dash,

Took me whole 1 hr to go through your last post. I think you gave enough for Dabboo and Chana to digest for now. I hope they can digest all of it and throw up on it.

Good Post, good thoughts, good critics, and good research.

You posted enough material for a good book for Newars.

glad i learnt history from this thread. 

Dashed bro!

You raised many valid points. To add to your points about Lichhavi, ( CT claims he read brick n bulls,which I doubt  of S R tiwari, the book speaks all about handigaun/lichhavi period, bhdradivas) -(CT bro would you mind  telling little excerpt from  the preface/ how he started the book? Since you are the only erudite in Sajha)

nevertheless, here are some facts of Lichhavi Period-

Manadev -Changu Narayan
Bhadradivas-Narendra Dev
Kailashkut -Ansu Verma

other monuments and architecture developed during that period.

Kathmandu town planning -Gunakamadev ( Unlike many think it is malla who started KTM town sorry , but that is WRONG)
Swombhunath Stupa including Ashok Stupa of Lagankhel and Many Stupas-Belongs to Lichhavi Period ( just google image the Lichhavi chaitya-u will see the diff btn mallakalin-see how malla adapted that design)- basically , STUPA Culture brought by Lichhavi

Dhunge Dhara -Lichhavi Period
( see the link below -
http://himalaya.socanth.cam.ac.uk/collections/journals/ancientnepal/pdf/ancient_nepal_116-118_02.pdf)

Chaitya -Lichhavi Started (google the lichhavi chaitya image you will see)
Rajkulo -Irrigation system-built during lichhavi period.

Again, credit goes to malla they did do fine job, but lichhavi were the most civizlied and technically advanced people,  the malla just tried to follow their culture that is why that period is called " swornim -golden era of nepali history".

Lichhavi established advanced governing system like " kaustoshi khana"  and etc.. Lichhavi were from India, possibly chetriya (KHAS may be) so they belong to bathing culture that is why they built dhunge dhara. I am not saying this, but the very book CT read is saying this lol.. I love reading history too, but I do not want to claim and sound like idiot-" I have read that, I have done that, I know him and so on"..bhanchan ni angreji ma gadhale matra afno nam paila lincha re..aru ma k bhanu ..

So fellow newars, their existed sophisticated culture even before malla period! Aren't you proud of that too..

You are right Shantipriya. Among three great kings of Licchavi era, king Anshu Verma was a khas/ thakuri (Verma means a chhetri) and not from the regular lichhavi dyansty. And the newars are really rooted to the Lichhavi period not the malla period. The surnames like shrestha, rajbhandari, amatya etc hail from that period but not malla. The official language in the licchavi kingdom was sanskrit. For instance, the cheif of army was called " Mahabaladhakshya", the villages were called "gram" etc. The common language of communication was Khas. They were in close contact with khas kings of the west. For instance, the kasthamandap in basantapur was built by Jumli khas king Malaya Bam (=Malaya Verma). Even one of the ktm malla king was a grand son of great khas king Prithvi mall of Jumla. Since the throne of Nepal khaldo remained unclaimed because one of Malla king in ktm had no son, they brought a Jumli prince and made king of ktm. So, the debate over newar and khas is pointless. Khas were in khaldo from time immemorial, even before the mallas migrated  to nepal khaldo from northern india.

Maverick,

Yes, we could detailly discuss these issues in person. I basically disagree with your points for me. The voice against one language policy or sambat issue was raised several decades ago (not only twenty years). The voice is still there and will continue to be there until all stakeholders (both for and against) are satisfied. Like other forums, Sajha also has diverse audience. If you think only post '90 era nepalese hang out here, you are absolutely wrong. You have already seen the information brought here touch all range of Nepalese people. About the history of Nepal, you are probably now aware that there are a lot of controversies. The history is still in the process of unfolding facts that are new to us. The "taught history" in school and campus is just a tip of iceberg.

==========================

Yakku,

"khas-only mindset" and "unitary-khas-domination policy"  is not a blame, but the reality of Nepal. However, all khas people are not equally responsible for the damage this policy did against many other languages and cultures of Nepal. All khas do not support the policy. You have to recognize the harm of the "unitary-khas-domination policy".

I do not understand why you are relating Mahabir Pun's work here. Mahabir's work is not for or against "khas-language domination".

============================

8848m,

If language is only to communicate, why we need to discuss khas vs newar? The entire world should use one language, NO? Actually, that does not work. The idea of ONE LANGUAGE ONLY in a country is authoritarian concept. People should not be forced to chose one. Let them use what they like.

BTW please stop using rubbish words like "shiat". I am not interested in such a menial exchange.

==========================

Sukla,

thank you for showing an interesting proof about the use of word "nepali/gorkhali"

Daboo,

thank you for your insights. I appreciate your presence in the thread.

==========================

bigrekoketo,

"Everybody is responsible for the situation of our country" is actually diffusing argument. Everybody is not EQUALLY responsible. The ruling people are more responsible than other ordinary citizen. The "Khas community" is very conservative because they think teaching and using khas language is enough for Nepal. This actually refuse recognizing other language. This is the main problem.

==========================

terobaaje ,

khas language is good for oral communication among various communities in Nepal. There is no doubt. But original name of "khas" is not "Nepali", you may call it "parbate", "gorkhali" or even "sinjali" if you wish.

Writing all your story is (hisi maru jya). I feel that I should stop commenting on your private life. In our society, we have plenty of such hateful-marriage relation in every cast and language group. That is not Newar-specific problem. By looking on racist "khas" family, I should not blame the entire "khas" community as the "most racist" as you did. The hierarchy of caste is actually made by upper class, not by lower class people. Upper class people think that they are accepted everywhere in the lower strata of the society. But the fact is that, the lower strata also committed to not accepting so called Upper class. For them, they have the pride on their culture and status, which the upper class fail to recognize.

You already mentioned my answer in your post - "Now please dont say that you dont hate us and you dont need to quote our comments like you need to justify and correct us...dont do it please". Where did you learn it is hatred to talk about equal-opportunity, equal-right, and to talk against state's discriminatory policy? You are fee to make any assumption about me but if you think I hate non-newars based on this discussion, then you are in absolute mistake.

=========================

sidster,

To understand the expansion and contraction of language, we need to understand the social behavioral pattern. Many parents started teaching "khas" language to their kids to avoid "ta ta ma ma" after newars were bullied for their inability to pronounce the word. The incentive of better job for better "khas" speaker also affected many non-khas natives. However, I agree with you that the non-khas (like newars) are also partly responsible. The negligence of their own has to be accounted in downfall of their language. I don't throw 100% blame to "khas" only in the downfall of other languages. About LIPI, devanagari is not "khas" lipi. This is actually Sanskrit lipi. Many descedents of Sanskrit use it. To ask stopping Newars use Devanagari is one the most stupid request I have ever encountered. Newar language is found in multiple sets of LIPI (about 17-different). Nepal lipi Guthi is a dedicated organization which is doing the job that you have requested.

"Do not let him sit in your " Tel Pasal, haluwa swari pasal or momo pasal" after school." This is inaccurate generalization of Newar society. Newar society does not only produce tel, haluwa swari or momo pasale, they also produce large number of other professionals. By the standard of diverse-profession, Newars have well survived in all sectors, but where are other non-khas except Newars? what made them so behind in the race? Passing "lokseva" for non-khas is difficult because of discriminatory language policy, which push them behind from the beginning of their education. Therefore you find more than 90% bahun-chhetri got enrolled as section officer (post '90 data who passed through lokseva). In a multi-lingual society, such a biased intake rate itself indicates the depth of the problem. It is not just the lack of learning "samanya gyan book".

Autonomous state is in the talks. Make sure the Newar you vote talks about your agenda in the house. There is a mechanism for it. You should get your fair recognition. If your population is 5% of the total population. I fully agree that it should get 5% of the consideration.

It is mere childish to keep commenting on personal interest. Some may follow hindi, some others may follow urdu, some may follow khas, some may follow english, french or even birds language. Unlike "khas" other language appeals to Newar audience, but khas is imposed one.

The words "inferior complexity", "sankuchit", "sampradaik", etc. has no place in this discussion. Use of these words show that you are out of logic. Newar is not a "race", then how it is "racist" to discuss the problem of Newar? Do you understand what the word "racist" mean? I think I have written already, if you missed that part, listen, I don't ask "khas" people to come and promote Newars. I just ask "khas"-inclined government to stop practicing discriminatory policy. Sadly, khas people like you do not want to change existing discriminatory policy, and you end up rampant bad-mouthing against us, who are arguing for equal treatment. We are in our fight to get equal treatment, without harming you, why you want to stand against us? If you stand against us, yes, you will get hurt. That is the nature of fight. 

"One more thing....not all Newars are proud of being a Newar.... my Newar friends hated it when their parents talked in Newari to them infront of their friends."
They probably wanted to avoid the embarrassment of "ta ta ma ma". There may be many reasons, but you are true. There are some newars who hate themselves for being a newar. Unfortunately, they can't change to a non-newar no matter whatever they do and keep hating themselves in their entire life.

=============================

shantipriya,

Asking for equal treatment and equal right is not hatred. If it would be hatred, perhaps Newars won't have khas friends, Newars won't learn, use, and write in "khas" language. Contradictory to this, you find 100s of Newars earning recognition in top-level Khas literate. Asking "We have done this to you, what you have done to us?" is not negative thinking.

And, what is your point on Bricks n bulls of Dr. Tiwari? You made several stupid remarks that I already thrashed into bay. You are now so disturbed by that and acting like a cry-baby. I understand very well why you are calling me everywhere you appear. Do you think the book is only available to you? or is that a indoctrinating book? Why should I tell you excerpt of a book I read?

Going into the topic, do you think rise and fall of malla dynasty is all about the newars?  Do you think Newars did not exist in Lichhavi period? I have mentioned you about an 8th century creation of Newars, now you find yourself who was the king that time. The Dhungedhara of Lichchhavi period mentioned in the book establishes how ancient the structure and technology was developed in Nepal. It does not establish that the Lichchavi-period "khas" people invented them and taught Lichchhavi-period newars about making Dhungedhara and bathing. The technology and culture built in Nepal was by its original inhabitants - the Newars.


===========================

GorkheCowboy

I wrote before - "I don't believe you", you proved me correct. right?
=============================

Nalapani,


When I read the history, I actually found all kings and princes came from somewhere else. The original inhabitants are rarely found as the ruler in Nepal unless they are offsprings of the ruling clan, who came from somewhere else. The Lichhavis, who displaced Gopal, were in run from south. The Mallas, who displaced Lichhavi, were also running away from their enemies leaving their own land. The Shahs, who displaced Mallas, were invaders.  It is not clear in any part of the history what Newars, the local people of Nepal Khaldo, were doing in all those political up and downs. Most historical documents are based on inscriptions, which are mostly established to pray powerful kings of the time. Therefore, the true history of ordinary citizen is not available to us.

There are nepalese temples in Banaras, Patna and many other places in India, but that does not prove that Nepalese kings have ruled those region. This is similar to the story about Kasthamandap built by Malaya Bam. The Mallas from Jumla and Mallas from Kathmandu should have quite different cultural upbringing. Linking these kings and their clans and interpreting that as the "khas" existence in the middle of "Newar" settlement would be erroneous.

Also, it is hard to believe that the throne of KTM khaldo remained unclaimed, where a complex urban population settled, and a powerful throne existed in Jumla, where nothing existed to serve even the basic needs. There are many similar unconvincing claims in our history, which makes it really hard to get objective knowledge.

Similarly, the Lichhavi period have used several languages, including Sanskrit and Nepalbhasa, but is there any evidence of "khas" language being used in Lichchavi period? or has it been recognized as "nepali" in the lichchavi period? I am interested to know this, if it exists.

You asked me about a solution. It is too early to put a solution. We don't need to thrash out newars or non-newars right now. We first need to create an environment where we can live with mutual respect. Right now, I have observed that "khas" people get disturbed badly when Newars or other non-khas community demand equal opportunity and equal treatment for their language and culture from the state-mechanism. This is basically arrogance against other lingual and ethnic community. We need to grow up above this irritation, and need to stop being arrogant against others,  and then we can find out appropriate solution.

================================

dharke bro,

You have shown how Malla kings did not impose Newar language to all their people. The article emphasizes on the use of Maithali. Similar article may be written for other languages too, e.g. Sanskrit. Many Malla kings were multi-lingual. I take that as a positive aspect of the Malla kings.

Besides, you have put some useful information and some contradictory logics to make your arguments showing "Newars are bad". I will go through them when I get time.

Yo maanche This raichha..........you are right there should be equality...but how can it be when there is division where you say uppercaste got theirs by force whether other castes respects that or not.....so in your words we are nothing but not even your equals ....but the lowest cast of all. Your kind as you say dont agree with the caste system and you dont recognize it. BUT what are we in your EYES......not equals right? so who is discriminating whom here???? To create this kind of thread is the proof enough that you hate our kind, you might not agree but look at every one including Newars, they think you are a hater, a trouble starter, a divider in a broken country, someone who has the intention to create a ethnic civilwar. Talks like this infuriates people more than educate......

 MR. Tarkari when someone judges you on the basis of your postings and calls you ‘racist’ face it !! Do not go beyond and ask to define the word. I will call you the same based on the above postings. Now you will answer me saying you never brought the race card in this discussion. Why the hell did you brought the topic “No NEWARI ….” You went further to call it “Nepalbhasa” . Your answer will be I just said do not call it Newari and I did not voice against other languages. Well, till the start of this thread you have shown your real face. I will not call you with any alankaars. You are no different than those leaders who advocate for a caste to cash in some sentiments/anger against other for the sake of being ‘Jatiye Neta’.

So far you were trying to argue and stick to the statement you made before (even you were exposed and proved wrong) but you made a very ignorant point about the infamous saying “mana makhau marsyaa kha” calling it a conspiracy hatched by Nepali speakers (Khas in your words). Your point is not valid and does not have any logic. How many madhesi origin nepali and Indians used to dwell in valley selling their vegetables, fruits, clothes and what not. That’s when this phrase originated as I heard (I could be wrong because you were the one who coined those words!!). When you run out of logics or try to cover up something you rely on “conspiracy theories” as Girija did about Royal Massacre.  Or did a Khe (in your word) came to your house and this phase was coined as the parents were waiting to take  revenge  with THE Khe whose ancestors defeated you ancestors several generations back !! Wow I have to salute the tradition of carrying over the revenge for several generations!!

चनाको लोक्-सेवाको रटान मैले बुझिन do they require you to be top-notch in Nepali (oops Khas language in your dictionary) just to answer those questions in that exam. I have never appeared to that test so I am not familiar !

बाँदर बढी बाठो भयो भने के भएर मर्छ भन्थे चनाको व्यबहार तेस्तै लाग्यो । अलिकति पढे लेकेपछि 'मै डुम् मै राजा' भन्ने भाबले 'मेरो गोरुको बार्है टक्का' गर्दै हिंडेको मान्छेलाई म के भन्न चाहन्छु भने यस्ता वाइयात, बकम्फुसे कुरा गर्नु भन्दा प्रगतिशिल ठाउमा दिमाग खर्च गर। तिमी जातियताको कुरा निकाल्न चाहन्थेनौ भने यो धागो कुनाइ नेवारी साइटमा हुनु पर्थ्यो !! किन साझा (सबैको कमन)मा राख्यौ ?

चनाको लोक्-सेवाको रटान मैले बुझिन do they require you to be top-notch in Nepali (oops Khas language in your dictionary) just to answer those questions in that exam. I have never appeared to that test so I am not familiar !

बाँदर बढी बाठो भयो भने के भएर मर्छ भन्थे चनाको व्यबहार तेस्तै लाग्यो । अलिकति पढे लेकेपछि 'मै डुम् मै राजा' भन्ने भाबले 'मेरो गोरुको बार्है टक्का' गर्दै हिंडेको मान्छेलाई म के भन्न चाहन्छु भने यस्ता वाइयात, बकम्फुसे कुरा गर्नु भन्दा प्रगतिशिल ठाउमा दिमाग खर्च गर। तिमी जातियताको कुरा निकाल्न चाहन्थेनौ भने यो धागो कुनाइ नेवारी साइटमा हुनु पर्थ्यो !! किन साझा (सबैको कमन)मा राख्यौ ?

sorry double post ..
but nepali unicde (oopd khas unicode) is not showing up !!

Ha ha ha CT am I crying- there is the adage- " Chor ko khutta Kat bhanda khutto uchalyo"-well goes to you. I knew you have no idea about how licchavi developed KTM and where they have come from and who they are. I had to ask  you about the book excerpt to let the sajaite know that you have not read it. Had you read it you would not have made this "The Dhungedhara of Lichchhavi period mentioned in the book establishes how ancient the structure and technology was developed in Nepal. It does not establish that the Lichchavi-period "khas" people invented them and taught Lichchhavi-period newars about making Dhungedhara and bathing. The technology and culture built in Nepal was by its original inhabitants - the Newars." Proves your are just a moron nothing else. Read some will be good for your wisdom. There are many literature avaiable. You can not get away with your stupidity, at least not  here.

@shantipriya

Here is what I've found. Copy and paste though coz I am not a scholar like you guys

In the late fifth century, rulers calling themselves Licchavis began to record details on politics, society, and economy in Nepal. The Licchavis were known from early Buddhist legends as a ruling family during the Buddha's time in India, and the founder of the Gupta Dynasty claimed that he had married a Licchavi princess. Perhaps some members of this Licchavi family married members of a local royal family in the Kathmandu Valley, or perhaps the illustrious history of the name prompted early Nepalese notables to identify themselves with it. In any case, the Licchavis of Nepal were a strictly local dynasty based in the Kathmandu Valley and oversaw the growth of the first truly Nepalese state.

The earliest known Licchavi record, an inscription of Manadeva I, dates from 464, and mentions three preceding rulers, suggesting that the dynasty began in the late fourth century. The last Licchavi inscription was in A.D. 733. All of the Licchavi records are deeds reporting donations to religious foundations, predominantly Hindu temples. The language of the inscriptions is Sanskrit, the language of the court in north India, and the script is closely related to official Gupta scripts. There is little doubt that India exerted a powerful cultural influence, especially through the area called Mithila, the northern part of present-day Bihar State. Politically, however, India again was divided for most of the Licchavi period.

To the north, Tibet grew into an expansive military power through the seventh century, declining only by 843. Some early historians, such as the French scholar Sylvain Lévi, thought that Nepal may have become subordinate to Tibet for some time, but more recent Nepalese historians, including Dilli Raman Regmi, deny this interpretation. In any case, from the seventh century onward a recurring pattern of foreign relations emerged for rulers in Nepal: more intensive cultural contacts with the south, potential political threats from both India and Tibet, and continuing trade contacts in both directions.

The Licchavi political system closely resembled that of northern India. At the top was the "great king" (maharaja), who in theory exercised absolute power but in reality interfered little in the social lives of his subjects. Their behavior was regulated in accordance with dharma through their own village and caste councils. The king was aided by royal officers led by a prime minister, who also served as a military commander. As the preserver of righteous moral order, the king had no set limit for his domain, whose borders were determined only by the power of his army and statecraft--an ideology that supported almost unceasing warfare throughout South Asia. In Nepal's case, the geographic realities of the hills limited the Licchavi kingdom to the Kathmandu Valley and neighboring valleys and to the more symbolic submission of less hierarchical societies to the east and west. Within the Licchavi system, there was ample room for powerful notables (samanta) to keep their own private armies, run their own landholdings, and influence the court. There was thus a variety of forces struggling for power. During the seventh century, a family known as the Abhira Guptas accumulated enough influence to take over the government. The prime minister, Amsuvarman, assumed the throne between approximately 605 and 641, after which the Licchavis regained power. The later history of Nepal offers similar examples, but behind these struggles was growing a long tradition of kingship.

The economy of the Kathmandu Valley already was based on agriculture during the Licchavi period. Artworks and place-names mentioned in inscriptions show that settlements had filled the entire valley and moved east toward Banepa, west toward Tisting, and northwest toward present-day Gorkha. Peasants lived in villages (grama) that were administratively grouped into larger units (dranga). They grew rice and other grains as staples on lands owned by the royal family, other major families, Buddhist monastic orders (sangha), or groups of Brahmans (agrahara). Land taxes due in theory to the king were often allocated to religious or charitable foundations, and additional labor dues (vishti) were required from the peasantry in order to keep up irrigation works, roads, and shrines. The village head (usually known as pradhan, meaning a leader in family or society) and leading families handled most local administrative issues, forming the village assembly of leaders (panchalika or grama pancha). This ancient history of localized decision making served as a model for late twentieth-century development efforts.

One of the most striking features of present-day Kathmandu Valley is its vibrant urbanism, notably at Kathmandu, Patan, and Bhadgaon (also called Bhaktapur), which apparently goes back to ancient times. During the Licchavi period, however, the settlement pattern seems to have been much more diffuse and sparse. In the present-day city of Kathmandu, there existed two early villages--Koligrama ("Village of the Kolis," or Yambu in Newari), and Dakshinakoligrama ("South Koli Village," or Yangala in Newari)--that grew up around the valley's main trade route. Bhadgaon was simply a small village then called Khoprn (Khoprngrama in Sanskrit) along the same trade route. The site of Patan was known as Yala ("Village of the Sacrificial Post," or Yupagrama in Sanskrit). In view of the four archaic stupas on its outskirts and its very old tradition of Buddhism, Patan probably can claim to be the oldest true center in the nation. Licchavi palaces or public buildings, however, have not survived. The truly important public sites in those days were religious foundations, including the original stupas at Svayambhunath, Bodhnath, and Chabahil, as well as the shrine of Shiva at Deopatan, and the shrine of Vishnu at Hadigaon.

There was a close relationship between the Licchavi settlements and trade. The Kolis of present-day Kathmandu and the Vrijis of present-day Hadigaon were known even in the Buddha's time as commercial and political confederations in north India. By the time of the Licchavi kingdom, trade had long been intimately connected with the spread of Buddhism and religious pilgrimage. One of the main contributions of Nepal during this period was the transmission of Buddhist culture to Tibet and all of central Asia, through merchants, pilgrims, and missionaries. In return, Nepal gained money from customs duties and goods that helped to support the Licchavi state, as well as the artistic heritage that made the valley famous.

Source:http://countrystudies.us/nepal/5.htm

Chana you said

Unlike "khas" other language appeals to Newar audience, but khas is imposed one.

Your citizenship should be revoked for saying the national language  as an imposed anguage. You are one crazy  Newar. I have lots of Newar friends and they love their cultures and language but i had never met a Newar with the hatred as much as you carry in you.

Goras must have imposed English Language on me according to you...LMAO...Listen man.....nothing is imposed in Nepal..you do things with your choices.....I learned english so that i could sell myself better in this global world. Most Newars learned national language to be able to better sell their ideas to most people. For eg...with Newari language you could only reach 5% of the population, Maithali another 5%, Sherpa another 1%...but with Common language you could communicate with over 80% of the population and that is WHY YOU LEARNED NEPALI...not because someone imposed it on you.

I wonder if you have guts to express these crazy opinion of yours in public. I have never heard a Newar talk like you. Where do your kind hang out??? just wondering.,,,

 "Where did the word NEPALIS come from? What grammar is it? Can anyone tell me?

In English language it is Nepalese People and not NEPALIS people. Are you grammatically dis-advantaged? Or intentionally corrupting the words?

These are all concoctions by the smart Bahun kind who think they can gradually make the change and own it in the name of NEPALI by default. Stop this trickery!"

spend sleepless night rewriting, copying and re-cycling the information we all know in this boring and extended monologue.

 Yeah I spend time to say something about some couture, be it mine or others culture. Regarding the “sleepless night” I again say “speak for yourself” and don’t under estmate other people you don’t have right to do that. If you really think I need sleepless night just to write few pages, that just shows your inability   of thinking, not mine.

 Rewriting and recycling

 In which century you are living? Whatever you said was just from you head, no research done? No one knew about it before it just popped up in your brain?? Are you a psychic??

 Boring and monologous?

 When someone says something about your culture it becomes boring and monologues to you?  You have no habit of listening to others or what?

And even if it is boring accept it, things about your culture is boring to you it is not my fault. Monologue? Do you have difficulty in understanding meaning of English words, if you have then check in the dictionary what is the meaning of monologue. I am saying it again,  think before what you write and understand what you are writing. Just gathering group of word doesn’t make any sense.

 Waste of time …

LOL, when some one spends time about your culture you consider it as a waste of time? Is reading about your culture is waste of time, is that what you think? So, finally you said it about you culture:  Bravo what a respect you are showing to your culture. You said it clear and loud what you think about your culture.

 Next time write from your head:

lol apparently you failed to see which part I have referenced and which part not. Can’t you find those simple things in my answer? Do you have limitation of understanding English language??  Or when I give examples of other scholar’s hard work, you are afraid of facing the reality. Does reality bites you?

 I went to sleep after few para cause it was uninteresting a bunch of babbling mumbo jumbo. It felt like a Pundit recital rattling lots of un-understandable

 Yeah you said it loud again you feel sleepy when reading things about your culture. Things about your culture are uninteresting to you and it is mumbo jumbo. Or you are a spoiled child who just wants to listen to praises and cant withstand criticism. Are you a spoiled child??

 Yeah, things written in plain English in un-understandable to you. Bravo brother you proved yourself

Sorry, for me it is just lots of water poured over aimlessly and uselessly indicative of utter frustration with no rational arguments and thus venting oneself with lots of words.

 You said you it took few hrs just to scroll down and went to sleep after few para and still dare to reply? Don’t you think if you want praise or criticize what someone has written you need to read it entirely?  Looks like you were unable to learn these things in school, you had a learning problem??

You admit that you have not read completely what I have written  and still you are saying lots of water poured over aimlessly and uselessly indicative of utter frustration with no rational arguments and thus venting oneself with lots of words. It might be different then that how do you know? Wherever you go you express your opinion about things like that? Is your opinion about your culture is also without reading anything? That is what you do in practice? Is that the common practice in your culture?

Next time try to be short and precise if you want people to read it and react properly to it. People in America and even here in Nepal does not have time to go thru this “Panditam Puranam”.

 

Haha,  if it is difficult for you to read few pages then you haven’t read the history written by Dhanabajra Bajracharyaa you know how big the book is. Forget about him he is too much of a scholar for you try any history paper in journal have you read any of those? I bet not because they have many pages.Or may be you just want to avoid embarrassment and asking me not to write in detail

 Ppl in America and   even here in Nepal does not have time

 First, speak for yourself, if people don’t have time they don’t come to Sajha and read it, I am not forcing anyone to read it. I have not forced you to reply to me have I? Why and what are you afraid of? Let people decide for themselves whether they have time or not, don’t try to impose. Or are you the time keeper of Nepalies and American Nepalies?

 Fact is when PNS invaded the “Nepal Khalto) and army of some 2000

 LOL, which scholar’s hard work is that? When you specify number don’t you think you should give credit  to the person who came up with that number? Nobody taught you that? Or you failed to learn general curtsey, which one is true?

 Oh, yeah since you don’t recycle info and copy paste that number may have just popped up in your head. Is that true?

Or may be you have time machine you went back to time and saw PNS with 2000 ppl and you made sure that those 2000 were Brahmins by counting their tuppi? They might have topi in their head did you took all the topi and checked their tuppi? Other wise from where you got that 2000 number??

 May be you are a psychic; things automatically come to your brain? Which version is true?

Or, its stealing from others work and saying from your head is your practice? That is what your culture taught you?

So many options is available for you please have guts to choose the option you like or if there is other option you are free to tell from where  that number 2000 came?

 On their advice: this also just popped up in your head or someone else has written it? Are you saying this is your intellect or from your head?  Then ok you don’t have to give the reference but again I will be asking what the logic behind it? But if it is written by someone else then you are in trouble? You know what plagiarism is? Looks like you have no respect to the hard work of other people. That makes you what?

 Same questions go to you other claims in that paragraph of yours.

 What ever they touched turned to art and this was what the new victors were after, to own the artifacts and not to preserve the people and its culture.

 Yeah you know how to blame may be it is in you blood, were you there when they were advising PNS, which scholars work is that?  When a culture has such a person it doesn’t need outsiders for its demise. Your negative attitude is more than enough?

 If these rulers were real connoisseurs and lovers of arts then why did they not help real development of the arts of Nepal ever in 240 years It is easy to say “you are wrong” but it is difficult to see what’s going on in contemporary world, analyze and come to the conclusion.

 Example: everyone says Pyramids are great. But no one builds new pyramids why? Every one says the architecture of the post renaissance buildings in europe are great but no one is building such buildings why? Visit south India and you will see great temples, idols there, they are proud of those, South India is ruled by south Indians, but no one is building new temples why?

Because priorities changes with time,  things doesn’t not stop, time doesn’t freez at certain point of  civilization, ppl move on , new reality demands new things that is when people stop following old habits. Likewise in Nepal too time doesn’t stop at Newari art and culture. If we continue same thing again and again then there won’t be any new thing.

 Human civilization, culture always moves forward no one can stop it. If it was possible to continue same thing and if it was not necessary to move forward, gopal bansi could have done that, Kirats could have done that, Lichhabi could have done that there by no chance of development of Newari culture but ppl move forward living behind old thoughts, civilization and culture. That moving forward attitude paved the way for the development of Newari culture but  after the development of Newari culture you guys want to freez the time, sorry that is not the human nature, Please don’t try to go against how humans are build. Whatever you try to stop there is always a group of people wanting to try new things.

BUT I know this plain English answer is un understandable to you.  You just want to hide inside the solace of your thoughts. Or, may be you sleep while reading this. What I know is even after just scrolling my posting you love to answer don’t you? It doesn’t bother me but you are making yourself a laughing stuff. Don’t you think there are many sajhaites who read but don’t comment and those silent readers just make some sort opinion about you and next time when you post something they read you’re posting with previous opinion. Don’t forget you are writing not only for me but also to those silent readers. I know you won’t understand these things you already said it.

 With such power in hand and with such clever advisors, one had the sublime opportunity to do real good deeds for the subjects and the people of the land for their welfare and freedom, for their personal, social and economical development. ……….. people would have respected and revered just rulers and the history and legacy would have remembered them as great leaders and rulers. That could have been a WIN WIN situation.

 Lol, so in your tradition losers decide win win situation ha?  that’s like Prachands speech, too much of talk. I can say same thing to Malla Kings and/ or to Yakchya Malla, read below.

 “Instead of dividing a country among brothers and treating its inhabitants as subjects they should have developed a strong country and stay united so that it could have survived “khas” invaders. Science was taking front stage in many countries but the Kings of city states were busy creating the story that goddess used to came at night to play game with them.  Foreigners were coming from thousands of miles (English) to colonize the land. Instead of realizing where world is heading, those kings were always involved in infighting. They were unable to fulfill the people’s aspiration and unable to understand the fact that if you can’t keeps your citizen happy they will not be loyal to you. This became the main cause of demise of Malla Kings.”

One of the popular stories about creation of living goddess is goddess Taleju used to come at midnight to play tripasha with king Jaya Prakash Malla , one night the king had a sexual look at her, the goddess got angry and disappeared,  reappeared in his dream telling him that she will come and advise him about “Rajkaj” but not directly but in the form of Kumari , another version is that the goddess had condition that  no one should see her except the king but one day queen saw so she disappeared and  reappeared in his dream with already mentioned things.

 Another version of Kumari was the king was raping a 13 yrs old Shakya gal,(The gal didn’t had her first period) she died during this, and queen came to knew this incident. Queen was very angry; she told him he will go to hell for doing this thing to a kid. They later consulted Brahmins and as per his suggestion the started the Kumari tradition,

 

The 17th century falls into the early modern  period of Europe and in that continent was characterized by the Dutch Golden Age, the Baroque cultural movement,  the Scientific Revolution, and The General Crisis.   End of the Dutch Revolt, the disintegration of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and the English Civil War.

 But the Kings in KTM valley were still visited by goddess to play tripasha and advice him on “Rajkaj” and that story creates the tradition of Kumari, “aafule  raati raati moj garna lerako  kt, tyo pani Rani lai thaha nadikana,  lai goddess bhandai janata lai murkha banauney aani PNS le invade garyo bhanne”  Are you really proud of some of these cultures? Are you sure these cultures were started by locals? There is yet another version of Kumari story that is even more disgusting then these.

The story of Gai Jatra is to soothe the grief-stricken Queen after their youngest son died. Started by Pratap Malla, and  it is celebrated in the month of “Bhadau” Which is a very busy month for harvesting corn , beans and preparing the land for winter crop but  King asked everyone whose family member died in that year to parade in front of queen. When prince dies they are in grief but they don’t care about the grief of their citizens and work they have to do in busy month but they had to parade in front of queen just to sooth her and who will soothe the ordinary citizens? You know it also rains in that month and locals have to parade without protection from rain if it is rainy. Lol what a great service of a king to its people and you are proud of it isn’t it?

Likewise Indra Jatra was started by Guna Kamadev,

You said many Jatras any festivals has their origin in local people not on the ruler. History says otherwise. Many festivals and Jatras were started by Kings. Yeah yeah I know this thought is product of your intelligent brain and just popped up in your head. You know everything, understand everything.  Those history books mean nothing to you.

may overlooked it intentionally. “Nepal khalto” as you know, was a real melting pot, a sanctuary for those who were prosecuted and chased away from their native land….

 This para contains some part which is summary from grade 10 history book and other parts partially contain what I believe too.  Now you are saying local ppl were not ruled by local Kings, and most of the kings were from different places.

Mr. Daboo one hand you say rich cultural local people and on the other hand you say not ruled by local people. When a society becomes culturally reach the society enters into complex stage, it creates different hierarchy and defends itself, no advance and culturally rich people easily accept outsider as their king without a fight. If you study culturally rich societies everywhere around the world they show same practice.

 Oops sorry. I forgot you feel sleepy when reading lots of material. May be that is why you haven’t learned many things. Please read how society and cultures transform themselves during different stages of its development. And I am sorry to know that these things didn’t popped up in your brain by itself. So why don’t you take your time machine and see what you said is true or not?

A well cultured and developed society is always ruled by their own Leader in the beginning. Later on when they are invaded by different ruler, depending upon the time and nature of the ruler the local people are either mostly massacred or looted and converted into working class then again those invaders bring their people too, mostly soldiers, their families, logistic suppliers otherwise invaders wont be able to survive in new land because old people always try to revolt if they see the new ruler is weak in power.

After the 17^th century as population grew the uniter, conqurrer or invaders were happy when the people of new land obey them. For this they used to have enough soldiers of their tribes and also at that time it was not possible for mass to change their place. That is what PNS did, took the place, he was intelligent enough not to disturb the tradition of local people because he didn’t have enough army to control KTM valley  and on the top of that he had plans to take other city states too. At that time Gorkha was far less populated than any of the city states of KTM valley.

 Yeah Yeah Ktm was melting point you are saying as if there were no other culture developing nearby. You know there were many culture with more advance system in place at that time. Just read the history of Banaras, and surrounding cities. Sorry I forgot you feel sleepy when reading things written by other people, you just need things to come automatically inside your head.

One more question, in you sanctuary so called “khas” were there or not? Did they contribute or not? Or in you melting point sanctuary “khas” were not allowed to enter? Were they banned to enter into KTM valley?  If they were there why you deny the contribution from “Khas” to Newari culture? Or in order to accept their contribution they have to be converted into Newar first? Which one is true?

If you don’t know how to validate your point don’t give lecture.  And when I say this don’t think I am so labeled “khas”. I am just trying to show the bitter reality and false pride based on twisted assumption and wrong perception of certain group of people.

Regarding the word “Nepali” you will not be able to stop the use of word even in republic Nepal.

 Now don’t tell me that you are planning a Jihad for infidel “khas”. You are free to practice what you believe, destroy your passport because it portrays you as Nepali not as Newah. Burn your citizenship card because it recognizes you as a Nepali citizen, can you do that? If you can’t, don’t come and lecture. You know what lots of people with extreme thoughts cant realize they are becoming extremist.

 Are you grammatically dis-advantaged? Or intentionally corrupting the words?

Lol, slackdemic already answered you that, you still don’t get it?? Don’t worry you don’t understand these things

But, just for a thought looks like instead of concentrating on core subject you are trying your best to find my mistakes whatever it may be.

Instead of living on your strengths are you trying to live with others weakness. You know there is a special word for people who try to live with others weakness. Your intelligent brain could not find that word? Then goggle it.

Even let us say My English is week, are you trying to make fun out of it? When so labeled “khas”say something about the Nepali language you guys speak you make big fuss out of it.  When so labeled “khas” do it is wrong but when you do it ok, isn’t it? Are you a new “khas” in town? Lol that is what happens when you know only your side of the story. I don’t try to find typo in others post.  And I know as you said before you will be answering this post without reading just scrolling.

 PS:  It is not my intention to defame Newari or any other culture or group of people, my answer is directed towards the person mentioned and others with same attitude.

This is what happens, now dashed has come down to almost the same level to criticize " daboo", which I think is unnecessary. Please stob demeaning " the whole culture" just because one stupid guy.

Again, my question what does it take for us to accept the reality-the reality is PN Shah was ambitious king and Mallas were laid back, if PN Shah won the battle, was that his fault? Rather Malla king should have been blamed for being not able to fight with PN Shah -folks, they were not brave-they lost so what does it takes for  us to accept that? and how long will you continue to blame history for your weakness and inability? When I how will you move forward? You are talking about this things that happened 300 yeras ago, not 20 years ago. WIll you be happy to have a small princedom KTM where newars are already outnumbered? Will that make it happy? Blaming khas for their smartness  does not make you wise. You first become wise.

Racial, ethnic extremist thinking will destroy you at first!

shantipriyaa
As I said in the end of my post It is not my intention to defame any culture or group of people every answer is directed towadrs the person mentioned only. Sorry  once again,  if it hurt you.

वास्तबमा भन्ने हो भने नेपालको बाहुन छेत्रिहरुले यो "खस्" भाषालाई "नेपाली" भनाउन ठूलो सदयंत्र गरेको छ | येसो गर्दा अन्य भासा माथी दमन गर्न सजिलो वातावरण होस्  भनेर नै "खस्" भाषा लाइ "नेपाली" भन्दै प्रचार गरेको  हो | सन् १९०० तिर नै राम मणि आचार्य दीक्षित (हाल हिमाल मेडिया संचालन गर्ने कनक मणि दीक्षित का जिजु हजुरबुवा) ले "मतवाली हरुको जाली भाषा नमासे हिन्दुहरुको कल्याण हुदैन" भनि राणाको दरबारमा जाहेर गरेको थियो | तत्पश्चात गैर खस् भासाहरुमाथी निर्मम दमन गरियो | खस् भाषा बोल्न अस्वीकार गर्नेलाई सिपाही लगाएर जिब्रो थुतियो | गोरखापत्र प्रकाशन ताका पनि यो भाषालाई गोर्खाली भाषा भनिन्थ्यो | पछी पंचायती शिक्षाको आडमा मात्र यो भाषालाई "नेपाली" भनेर ब्यापक प्रचार प्रसार गरियो | अचेल पनि "खस्"हरुको हालीमुहाली रहेको संस्था जस्तै INLS ले यस्तो लेख्छन :
1. With the broader perspective, INLS has to invite all speakers of Nepali including other nationalities (i.e., Americans, Germans, Russians etc.) should be invited to join INLS. This includes not only other foreign nationals who have skills and interests in Nepali language, literarature, arts etc., but also our own Nepali fellows who speak dilects in Nepal (i.e., Newari, Maithili, Tamang etc.) and have skills and interests in Nepali language, literarature, arts etc..

Now the question arise what to do with other languages (such as, Newari, Maithili etc.) of Nepal? I have following views: 

2. Since existing bylaws of INLS "supports the development of other folk languages" (see Article III, ix; folk languages meaning dilects or local languages), the (INLS) executive committee can form subcommittee/s if there is a priority need for the development of other folk languages;

नेपालका अन्य भासहरु (नेवार, राई, लिम्बु, मगर, मैथिली, थारु, भोजपुरी आदि ) के छुट्टै भाषा होइन र? खसहरु त dialect पो भन्दै छन् | folk languages (लोक / झ्याउरे भासा) पो भन्दै छन् | किन कि उनीहरु "खस्" भाषा नै एकमात्र "नेपाली" भाषा हो भन्ने देखाउन मरिहत्ते गरि लागि परेका छन् |