Friends,

I am using this space for making a personal announcement that is very much a part of my Sajha life and which my well-wisher Sajha mates have been inquiring for several months already.

Well, my mini-novel Chaytna Nasakeko Chithiis finally published and a website dedicated to promote it is up and running.

- http://www.dkhadka.com/chithi

I have a long list of Sajhaites to thank. First and foremost, Echoes for an excellent web design and Shree for valuable guidance to web-illiterate person like me. Gokul-jee for a wonderful preface for the book which, let me give a preview, starts with the story of how it all started right here in Sajha some years ago.

I am donating the proceeds from the book to Help Nepal Network. And I have to thank Shirish for making that possible and helping me out in too many things.

I am also grateful to anonymous Sajha artists and models for their precious cooperation during my initial search for a design for the book.

Then all initial readers of the story for their encouragement and following up inquiries regarding its publication.

So, basically, in Sajha had my book it's birth pang and it would not have seen this day without Sajha.

I have been telling to all that Sajha has been a rewarding experience for me. This book is a living proof among many others I can produce.

Thank you Sajha mates ! Thank you Sajha !

Nepe

- http://www.dkhadka.com/chithi

You do not have to accept what Vishowntarji's talking, explaining about. Just don't take it at it's face value. You must develop the angle of analyzing the things in your own style and be confident about what you deduce. Sometimes, the technique might just be closing your eyes, analyzing, and sometimes themethod might be complicated ones. But nothing is complicated, if you do right, all are simple techniques. You must practice!!!!! You must experience by yourself.

You do not have to agree with Budhha, you do not have to agree with what your elders tell you. YOu do not have to believe just becasue it's the fact beleived for thousands of years.

That's how Budhha himself asked poeple to even doubt him-Budhha.

But he believes that the techniques he discovered is the sure-shot way to get enlightment. But to know it, you have to follow it, practice it, not just read it. Definition of ENLIGHTMENT... we should not even try to explain it.

But we must assume something before we do the experiement - i.e., hypothesis. So the hypothesis is - There may be Enlightment.

You think you have time to experiment to solve this hypothesis, then try Budhha's method of Vipasyana Meditation, middle path.

Vishontar-jyu,

Karmarana-jee has partly explained what I am going to say.

My point of making distinctions of training/learning and search/research was actually to illustrate a very critical differences in our approaches/understanding. I admit that I probably was not simple enough. However, I am sure once we get to the missing answer (2 additional essential things besides "rationality"), it will be clear.

Since it is really important, I would like to explain what I meant by training/learning and search/research.

Training = Copying, imitating or following exactly what "Guru" says. Learning = Training + scrutiny with pupil's own rationality.

Search = unscrutinized finding
Research = scrutinized finding

Now it should be clear that why I am emphasizing the distinction. I am after learning/research, not after training/search.

You probably are already realizing that what I am trying to do right at the beginning is to dismiss the Guru as the AUTHORITY of knowledge. It's not the Guru but the RATIONALITY is what should be the authority of knowledge. That is one.

Next but also related to the above, I was refusing to offer you a blank and rationality-free mind (is that what Buddhists call ego-free mind ?).

Now, it should be clear why I said RATIONALITY is all one needs to learn things. A training offered by a Guru of faith to a neutralized pupil is not a learning. It's simply what it is- a training.

I probably have answered the question. This roundabout way was necessary to make my point. I apologize for that.

Bhaute and SSK Ji, thank you for your kind words!

Karma Ji thank your for putting a lot of importance to Practice. You are right practice counts!

Makalu Ji, thank you very much for participating! You are right for the qualities one has to have for learning and doing research.

Environment is not a quality in person. Environment is necessary condition for learning but it is external. The internal qualities of a learner or researcher are, as you said, Discipline and Attentiveness . I have to add one more quality from Nepe Dai, which is Rationality. You can name many other qualities but they can be included within these three. For example: you mentioned willingness to learn, which can be considered a part of Attentiveness.

Nepe Dai,

I buy your definations, thank you for illustration. I meant "Learning" as you define learning and "Researching" as you define research.

I got only one word Rationality from you. Good highly important word though :). I will tell later how important point you have picked up.

I want you to come with all skeptisism you have. I want you to be absolutely rational. Instead, I will be in trouble if you are not rational. What makes you think that I am going to tell something irrational? What makes you to think that a scientist like you will buy my irrational words? Who am I to have faith on? I know me very well and I don't have any such wrong judgement about myself:). I wouldn't make any irrational statement knowingly even if it is not a public forum. However, if you find what I say irrational (which might happen), I have nothing to say you are your own master and you are your own judge. Aruge with me! I will be greatful to you for the opportunity to learn.

All I want from you is an interest to learn; I am giving my time with that believe. You have all right reserved to discard what I say if you find illogical, impractical and irrational. You are welcome for all skeptisism and doubts with the positive intension of learning.

Nepe Dai, I am not an expert but why don't you accept a plain fact that I can give you something in this topic. This is not by ego boost, but a simple truth. Believe me or not, I am not here to show off some scholarly work. I care about you and want you to learn Dhamma. I am here with a wholesome mind. May many other people get benefited from these postings!

Back to the Point:

Now, I claim that, Discipline (morality, ethics, abstaining from wrong doing), Awareness (attentativeness, mindfulness, alertness, heedfulness) and Wisdom (rationality, logic, analysis, good judgement, insight, common sense, knowledge) are the three qualities a learner, researcher must have. Do you have any disagreement? Or please let me know if you think there are more than these three.

These questions are just to clearify the Buddha's teaching. They are not asked for any other intension. I never lie.

As I already told you, I am not going to tell you Dhamma considering you as an intellectual person which you are. I am going to tell you Dhamma in very plain language as if you are a simple illitrate person. Forgive me for devaluating you :).

Please forgive me if I have used any uncomfortable word for you. My heart is clean.

Vishontar-jee,

I have nothing to disagree with you. As you said all of the things various friends named are important and they can be classified in various ways.

However, I will add that for on-line learning that we are about to embark on, some of these might be irrelevant as compared to, let's say, on-site meditation sessions.

In any case, I think we can go ahead now. As for trust, it's a term incompatible with the scientific scrutiny we have agreed upon. What is sufficient is that we respect each other. I respect your faith and you respect my skepticism. That should be sufficient.

व्यग्रतासाथ प्रतिक्षामा,

Nepe

गुरुहरुको दार्शनिक कुरा आफूले त जति कने पनि बुझिएन, तैपनि पछि लाग्न भने छोडेको छैन है।

तर दर्शनको जंगलमा हाम्रो साप्ताहिक शायरी कता हरायो?

नेपे गुरु,
We want साप्ताहिक शायरी!!!!

We usually assume,

Structure of language = Structure of Reality

But Budhha said, language can mislead us, and above assumption is not true. There are 'language of causality' and 'ordinary language'.

Once, a monk asked Budhha, "Ko Vedeta?" meaning "who feels?"
Buddha replied: "Do not ask who feels! Re-phrase the question in the language of causality. When there is sensory contact, there is feeling".

That's why in another thread related to Abhi's recent article and the rebuttal by Moriarty, i was trying to raise the issue what caused Abhi to write that article, what's the purpose of writing that article, did he write those sentences to be HERO to impress his readers, and what's the problem of his mind (lobha, dosa, moha) that forced him to write that article. IS THAT SO IMPORTANT for a Nepali to be able to go to USA? Can't we develop the country without going to USA? It's a very insignificant matter for person like Abhi to get his visa rejected. At least I think it so, but it seems he would not achieve nirvana if he miss USA trip, since whole life he taught American Studies wearing jeans to go and teach that subject in TU? C'mon this is miniscule thing. Instead he should be writing other type of article to encourage yound nepalese to develop the country.

Therefore, words like discipline, awareness, wisdom, rationality......skepticism... what are they? are we understood among us when we use those words to communicate each other? Very hard to say yes to that question.

Therefore, budhha said "You ought to do what ought to be done. I am just a guide (teacher)". Budhhism does not go beyond our experience. Nor the pleasure is equal to happiness. Buddha said, ehipasika: meaning come and examine yourself.

Budhha was totally (exclusively) concerned with only 2 problems:

1. Dukkha:suffereing, unsatisfactoriness - disharmony.
2. Nirodha: elimination or remediation or cessation of suffering.

Therefore, if you want to practice Buddhism, you have to understand/practice Buddhism for the purpose of only above two aspects (parameters or domains).

Solution to problem is Buddhism.

गौतमजी,

प्राविधिक/व्यावहारिक प्रतिकुलताले गर्दा यसपाली "साप्ताहिक शायरी" प्रस्तुत गर्न असमर्थ भएँ । खेद छ ।

Nepe Dai,

You speak pretty much like Buddha; after all both of you are scientists :). There is no room for belief in Buddha's teaching . Buddha's teaching start with truth and ends on truth. If you leave the truth you leave the Buddha's teaching. Stay with me I will prove.

I am glad that you have no objection to accept that Discipline , Awareness and Wisdom are three qualities to learn something. Let me explain this point in more detail.

If you are not disciplined, you can not be mindful if you are not mindful you can not understand.

In other words..

No discipline no awareness .... No awareness .... No wisdom

Isn't this a truth? Isn't this a science? Isn't this applicable to everybody?

If you are not disciplined. If you are adicted to alcohol, if you always chase women, if you indulge on smoking weed or any other drugs, if you waste your time by chating, talking with your friends and by surfing poisionous websites, if you involve in fighting, killing, stealing, playing cards and doing different type of nasty things ... there will be storm in your mind and you can not concentrate on what you want to learn (ie lose awareness), if you can not concentrate you can not know (lose wisdom, knowledge).

Remember you old buddies from high school to university. You are now a scientist in the scientifically most developed county. You left many of your friends behind. Discipline could be one of the reasons of your success. You couldn't be scientist if you didn't have self control or if you were not disciplined.

Discipline is very important factor for concentration (focus, awareness, attentiveness) and concentration is important factor for wisdom (knowledge). You can know things only if you are concentrated.

So discipline (self control) is prerequisite for concentration (awareness, attentiveness) and concentration is prerequisite for knowledge (wisdom).


These three are the key words, here I repeats again, one leading to another:

Discipline --> Awareness -->Wisdom
In other words
Self control --> Concentration -->Knowledge
in other words
Morality --> Attentiveness --> Rationality

It's not true that the Discipline comes first and Wisdom comes last. They help each other. If you are wise you feel the importance of discipline and attentativeness. If you are attentative, you can not break discipline. So, they help each other.

I claim that this is truth. To me truth is Science and I claim that this is a Science. Please feel free to show your disagreement on my claim.

Any disagreement?

That's something like Doctrine of Dependent Origination type of explanation. I agree. That's why simply using Ordinary Language may mislead us. We must think and analyze in terms of Lanuguage of Causality.

That's why Budhha cautions not to get confused with ordinary language, such as

Eye sees, Nose smells. [Ordinary Language]

Buddha says; Depending on the eyes, and depending upon the presence of visibility, there exist the vision consciousness.

Karmarana talking about Buddha's philosophy, LOL , Juna Goruko Singa Chhaina Usko Nama Tikhe. This is that same guy who writes with a dozen different IDs in Sajha and do KUKURMA in Sajha writing unnecessary things about the people of his society.And he gives lecture of Buddha in Sajha...

Prem_Dai, Pushkarsamarthak, Darshankaka, Thanda_Beer, Karmarana - use even 1% of Buddha's teaching in your real life, you will be a lot better person Dude.

Vishontar-jee,

I partially disagree with your logic in the following way.

It is a common knowledge that learning PRIMARILY depends on individuals IQ. Then [SECONDARILY] comes the quality of his/her EFFORT. The later might include what you called discipline/self control (let's exclude morality for now).

As for morality, it's not the best term to use, because it is subjective. In any case, the contribution of "morality" in general learning is extreme low and definitely INCONSISTENT. "Disciplined" but dull and "immoral" but brilliant people are everywhere.

The fact is, a proper management of time is important for learning. Meaning, it is always possible to separate some time for pleasure (okay "immoral") activities without hurting one's education/learning. In fact, depending upon the atmosphere one is, these "immoral" activities might help release one's tension and actually help more in learning afterwards !

However, there is one fundamental thing I disagree with you. That is, a lot of things (qualities) we are talking about do not exist in yes/no state; they exist in their gradation. Bhanchhan ni, not in a BLACK or WHITE state but in GRAY STATE. So if you take various SHADES (instead of BLACK or WHITE) into account, I believe a lot of rigid assumptions you have made will break down. But this is for future discussions.

For now, I shared my views on the factors on which learning depends.

Nepe

HMMM What does Nepe's book have to do with the discussion on Buddhism? Can someone enlighten me?

ha ha Ignitor,

Looks like you have some kind of problem with all those people/nicknames. Cloud of confusion has still not lifted from you, as I can see. And you may have problem with yourself. Try to look into yourself, whether it's because you got caught up into your own multiple nicknames schemes?

Nepe Dai,
Good to hear from you.

You wrote:
It is a common knowledge that learning PRIMARILY depends on individuals IQ.

It is included inside the wisdom part. IQ high means your mind is sharp, ie you are wiser. You understand things easily. If you are a man with very high IQ, but don't focus on your study, can you learn? Haven't you seen very smart person but don't wan't to see books? How can he learn? If you have very high IQ and you drink all day and night, can you learn? I have seen an alcohol adict with very high IQ. He is almost crezy and can't learn anything.

Every person is different. Some are wise and some are not. But the learning process apply to all. Those, who are wise (with high IQ), must have concentrated mind and must be disciplined, to learn. They might learn little faster, which is another thing. Those who are less wiser (with low IQ), must be disciplined and they must have focused mind. They might learn little slower, this is another thing. If somebody is quite dull, ie doesn't have wisdom at all, s/he also can not learn though s/he is disciplined or attentative. You have to have all three ie Discipline, Awareness and Wisdom to learn something. Any Doubt?

As far as the word morality is concern, I want to take it back for now :). I will use it in right time. I don't know how you define morality, but for me, it is the action which is not harmful to you and to others. Abstaining from doing wrong is morality. If you see deep inside of the word "discipline", you will find the morality hiding. For example: If you are involved in doing drug, you are indisciplined, you are immoral. If you have illigal relationship with somebody else's wife, you are indisciplined as well as immoral. If you spent your time just by playing cards you are immoral as well as indisciplined. If you lie or cheat others, you are indisciplined as well as immoral. If you involve in fighting, quarraling, bullying, killing etc, you are indisciplined as well as immoral.


If something is harmful to you it will most likely harmful to others and vice-a-versa. Because harmful is poision, it doesn't differenciate you and other. Indiscipline is doing something unhealthy or harmful, which is immoral too.

The points your have made are true.

You wrote:
The fact is, a proper management of time is important for learning

You are right. Imagine an ideal case that you have only one subject to learn. Say you are doing your research on Protein Folding in the human cell. When I raised the questions I mentioned that you have all ideal environment. You don't have to worry about anything, money, paper, time, relexation etc. Just focus on your project and keep exploring and keep learning. However, the point you made is good one, it is considered.

I hope I have cleared things to some extent. However, I will not be expalining anymore. Here I conclude:

A person (smart or dull) must be disciplined, must have concentrated mind and must be wise to learn something.

Discipline, Concentration and Wisdom are fundamental qualities to learn or to do research.

Many people might be wondering why am I giving a lot of importance to Discipline, Awareness and Wisdom. I spent so much time explaining just these three words. Now, here I uncover the secret…..


Discipline, Awareness and Wisdom together makes the complete teaching of Buddha.

This is the universal teaching of learning and researching. Buddha was a researcher and he taught the method of researching. The subject of research is one oneself. The sample to be researched is you yourself. Siddhartha Goutam did research on his oneself. Siddhartha Goutam explored himself. Siddhartha Gautam learned about himself. Whatever he found from that research, exploration, learning, made him a different man… the Buddha, which literally means The Awakened One (I will explain this later).

He said, "Discipline, Awareness and Wisdom, are the three things which help me to explore myself. Now I know a lot many facts about myself and it is true for yourself as well because you are like me. I have no way to show you….to make you feel….to explain to you what I found because I have no accesses to you. However, I can teach you the proper way to explore yourself and to find the facts about yourself."

These three words give completeness to Buddha’s teaching. Buddha never ever talked more than these three words. He delivered 84000 discourses during his 45 years of ministry, and never talked beyond these three words. All discourses were given to describe these three words …Discipline…..Awareness …. Wisdom.

All 84,000 discourses are different but all of them clarify these three words:

…Discipline…..Awareness …. Wisdom.

In his language: सिल (Discipline) समाधी (Awareness) प्रज्ञा (Wisdom)

Discipline is necessary for awareness and awareness generates wisdom. If you are not well disciplined, your mind wonders here and there and you can not be attentive and if you can not be attentive you can not understand. In his words if there is no सिल, there is no समाधी, and if there is no समाधी there is no प्रज्ञा.

सिल (Discipline) समाधी (Awareness) प्रज्ञा (Wisdom)
सिल (Discipline) समाधी (Awareness) प्रज्ञा (Wisdom)
सिल (Discipline) समाधी (Awareness) प्रज्ञा (Wisdom)

These are the three words which completes Buddha’s teaching. Not only Buddha’s teaching but any teaching in the universe.

He said “ केबलं परिपुर्णं, केवलं परिशुद्दं।“ Meaning: it is absolutely complete and it is ultra pure. It means you can not add or subtract anything on them. सिल (Discipline) समाधी (Awareness) प्रज्ञा (Wisdom), are complete and ultra pure qualities to explore oneself. They make a complete path to explore oneself.

Conclusion:

Buddha’s teaching is to explore yourself with the tools of सिल (Discipline), समाधी (Awareness), and प्रज्ञा (Wisdom).



I will describe सिल (Discipline), समाधी (Awareness), and प्रज्ञा (Wisdom), in more detail.

Sorry for the color of this paragaraph I wanted to make it pink :)

He (Buddha) said, "Discipline, Awareness and Wisdom, are the three tools which help me to explore myself. Now I know a lot many facts about myself and it is true for yourself as well because you are like me. I have no way to show you….to make you feel….to explain to you what I found because I have no accesses to you. However, I can teach you the proper way to explore yourself and to find the facts about yourself.

Be armed with these three tools ie Discipline, Awareness and Wisdom, and explore yourself---- This is my teaching"

This is his complete and ultra pure teaching!

Sorry for the color again :)

He (Buddha) said, "Discipline, Awareness and Wisdom, are the three tools which help me to explore myself. Now I know a lot many facts about myself and it is true for yourself as well because you are like me. I have no way to show you….to make you feel….to explain to you what I found because I have no accesses to you. However, I can teach you the proper way to explore yourself and to find the facts about yourself.

Be armed with these three tools ie Discipline, Awareness and Wisdom, and explore yourself---- This is my teaching"

This is his complete and ultra pure teaching!

That's the universal truth.

People are afraid to close eyes and stay quiet for even a minute. They become restless. Staying quiet, doing nothing is very very difficult. Because in that state you have to deal with yourself, your qualities, way of thinking, so on. That's why poeple always look for something at which they can be engaged, entertainment, movie theater, bar, company of friends drinking beers, looking for free beers, chatting all sort of things, and always thinking how to cheat other guy.

Discipline is very important. With discipline you own yourself.

Awareness is very important. You know yourself.

Wisdom is very important. You end the sufferings.

People try to figure out, know more things such as How big is Universe? When was it originated? How? Absolute beginning? Is universie finite/infinite? Is universe eternal?

The above questions are metaphysical /cosmological questions. No Science can give the answers to these questions.

Buddha never explained those things. In Buddhism there is no SPECULATION. And therefore, such questions are IRRELEVANT in Buddhism. For this Buddha gave an example:

A man was struck by an poisonous arrow. A doctor comes and treats him. Questions like - Who shot the man? How? Why he shot the man? - are irrelevant to the Doctor. The paramount important issue for the doctor is TREATMENT.